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Peter Shepherd

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Peter Shepherd last won the day on November 17 2019

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  1. Phil Not sure what happened, message in the attachment hasn't appeared, the deadline for the 13th seems awful tight. I only asked about grace periods because I and my members have already been removed from the membership area access so I am no longer able to view the proposed constitution presumably we aren't receiving emails from the MYA also, are we being victimised for taking an active role?
  2. Darin I think you may have had a bigger uproar on your hands had you not published the Appendices, as Document 1 would have appeared very flimsy indeed, I am sure that greater minds than mine with more experience in these matters have pointed you in the right direction. Does this mean you will be postponing the vote to allow time for all these points of view to be collated? With the confusion as to what the membership of the MYA will actually mean in the future and it being difficult to ask my club members to join something which at present it is so difficult to understand what the nature of it will be, what is the current grace period for the return of membership fees?
  3. Darin Thanks for your input to the discussion minimal as it is, I think most contributors understand the reasoning behind a constitutional review and in most cases support the process, however what has been produced is neither robust nor resolves the problems with the current constitutions interpretational ambiguities. Surely in a constitution of quality no further explanation is needed, isn't that rather the point of it! To set out a framework of clear rules by which an organisation is governed! Presumably the council feel that they have achieved this in the current proposal otherwise why else would you have put it to the membership?
  4. Phil Given that the according to you the "unworkable" constitution has been in place for a number of years, and seemed to serve the members reasonably well until this current administration, I would suggest that the only urgency for change is on the part of the MYA Council, although it is my belief that there is a wind for change amongst the membership as well. I am surprised you need to ask for suggestions as to a way forward as a number of suggestions for getting the MYA a modern robust constitution to see it into the coming years have already been presented here, it would appear the majority posting here are suggesting to use what you have as a consultation document with a properly thought out constitution being presented at the 2020 AGM having been worked upon by a constitution steering sub committee taking into consideration the views of all parties. If the 2020 World Championship event at West Kirby is causing you difficulty, in that you need to work outside the current constitution then put the amendments to allow you to host this event in the manner you wish before an EGM and assuming it is seen to be reasonable I can see no reason why members wouldn't vote for those changes presented as a specific requirement for this event, I find it hard to believe that we need to adopt the proposed poorly constructed document in it's entirety for the sake of one World event.
  5. Phil It seems the MYA Vice presidents count is now up to almost half, not including of course those that have contacted you with "constructive ideas"! Still not enough?
  6. Excellent Phil So now that we have 3 vice presidents suggesting that more time is required to make the changes required to produce a proper working constitution and a further unspecified number of vice presidents "offering support for this move and also constructive ideas on further improvements", does the council not think if it truly wants to produce a working document for the future that it would be best for all concerned to suspend the EGM make the proposed constitution a consultation document and bring an improved more complete version of the proposed constitution before the AGM in 2020? Interesting that you appear to think those posting vice presidents here are not supportive of the MYA, castigate them for picking over minutiae within a constitution, which even to the everyday skipper appears to be a very poorly written proposal and then go on to do the very same thing with the current constitution which you as part of the MYA Council are currently the custodian of!
  7. Given the number of well respected former council members and leaders within our hobby/sport expressing their concerns over the direction the MYA council has taken in introducing a new constitution in a manner which gives very little opportunity for the membership to have a say in the revisions, do the council feel it would be appropriate to withdraw the motion for the EGM until the proposed constitution can be put into proper order? I am concerned that if I approach my members to join the MYA at present they won't know under what set of constitution rules they are paying their membership fee, has any provision be made to allow clubs to delay their affiliation until the vote is finalised? So far their has been no response from the MYA council to this thread in the category the title of which says "MYA Chat Follow 1 Ask your questions here or visit to see what the MYA are saying." although I can see that largely it is populated by statements it would be most helpful to have a background as to why the MYA Council felt it was necessary to introduce a vote on what, on the face of it, appears to be more a "working document" than a completed document can someone please respond?
  8. I left this thread alone for a while largely because the only response it initiated from members of the MYA Council was personal attacks, largely ignoring points raised. Your first paragraph once again deliberately misses the point, largely the people who play golf are not Rory McKilroy they are like our the majority of members who go out and play a round for the enjoyment of it, but of course it once again gives you a convenient way to attack the messenger. I did not say that I wanted the MYA to do more to retain members as "opposed to promoting the sport to new members" I suggested that if you want to grow the "sport" then you need to put a similar effort into retaining members as you are to gaining them in the first place, you seem to have interpreted the constitution statement "To encourage and promote model yachting in all its branches and to act as the national body for the organisation of the sport." as referring only to promotion externally which of course it does not say it does say "encourage" which I interpret to include internally to existing members, clearly your interpretation is somewhat different, once again you pick only the parts of a constitution clause which suit you. Not seminars with death by power point attended by only the very enthusiastic but theory sessions prior to going on the water discussing how to position your boat to advantage yourself for the start etc and then practical run throughs with discussions afterward as to what we might have done to improve our situation. Could you direct me to the MYA framework "teaching notes" for this kind of session? Would you like to suggest how a district that has had it's club contact details stripped from the previous councillor and then the replacement isn't given any help in accessing the clubs is supposed to advertise his own position? It is the MYA that has organised itself into districts and so ultimately if the MYA wants this to continue then more effort is required than here is a lump of funds go sort yourselves out which is what you seem to be suggesting is the current position.
  9. Why should the fee not be £14.00? Please put a value on how much you consider the elements that the MYA provides are worth-ignore that we currently have a surplus. Let me start, How much would you pay to advertise a boat for sale on a dedicated central sport specific site? 50p, £1.00, £5.00 what do eBay charge? Lets start with this, before we look at how much other items are worth. It seems odd to me that you are even asking me to put a value on the elements that make up the MYA Fee, surely you understand that it is the role of council to budget appropriately on behalf of members, if by asking this question you are saying that you are clueless as to what actual elements are costing, then I refer you to the attached spreadsheet for the years 2011 to 2018. Given that E bay appears to have a far wider catchment of Model Yachters than the MYA's Forum then the comparison of charges seems to me to be largely irrelevant. Is there not a benefit for advertising boats internally to keep them amongst members who are likely to sail them in competition that outweighs the MYA charging for the service, however I would think that advertising on E bay, given the far superior numbers using the site, is likely to provide an owner with a better return.
  10. Despite the fact that largely the questions I have asked throughout this thread have gone unanswered, I am quite prepared to have a go at answering yours Darin although most of them appear to be asking my opinion, and indeed some of my answers may yet throw up more questions. Do you think there is any link to the fact that those clubs (in the main )are in a district that cannot find a volunteer to be a councillor? Yes if this is the case then there probably is a correlation so my question would be why can't they find a volunteer? Is it because there is precious little support (other than the aforementioned financial one) from the MYA or perhaps the support is there but the MYA is not getting this across to potential volunteers? Perhaps the lag time of 6 months between the actual notice being given by a volunteer Councillor and the re-advertising of the post might have something to do with it. Perhaps using communication systems such as bulk email accounts designed for their simplicity rather than with all the technical bells and whistles would enable those who do volunteer not to feel completely out of their depth straight away. Would a central source of information keep them keen? Would a district source of information keep them keen? Would regular race reports keep them keen? etc etc etc (all of the following questions appear to be you banging the drum for all the things you do) and nobody says those things aren't appreciated, however I presume here that you are suggesting that you already provide these in the form of the MYA website, support of the District websites and the emailing of Race reports to those who subscribe, although here I feel our approach would differ. My starting point would try to be more inclusive in that having joined the MYA and participating in the hobby/sport, I would want to hear all of the relevant information regarding the classes I have chosen to participate in, so instead of pleading with people to sign up to the updates, why not sign up everyone and give them the option of unsubscribing, however you would then have to put in place a system whereby you send only the relevant information for the classes sailed, whether this is by paying for a multi user bulk email provider and giving access to class captains or distributing the contact information to those class captains and providing support in a bulk email use, otherwise the effort you put into the websites etc. is largely only going to be seen by those of us keen enough to go and look for ourselves In my club from time to time we have run informal teaching days for our skippers, concentrating largely on the start, the upwind mark rounding, the downwind rounding and final leg, the emphasis for all these days has been about how to approach each of these elements by using the rules to your advantage, a written framework along these lines of specific relevance to radio sailing produced and revised after each rule change period. If it could be made to be used as a teaching framework I think it would be of immense benefit across all the levels of Model Yachting having the ability to reach a wider cross section of participants giving them the tools to improve their race techniques and perhaps enabling them to get more out of their participation and thereby making them more inclined to stay.
  11. A couple of points here, firstly Darin maintains that the amendment has nothing to do with communication or planning, however if the MYA Executive were effectively communicating it's planning for the future to the membership then perhaps the clubs involved in the production of the amendment wouldn't have felt it necessary to do so. Indeed just following the correct protocols for sending out motions and amendments would be a start. Phil Holiday makes the point that people come and people go but membership numbers remain largely the same, what are the numbers of members who disappear each year as a percentage of the overall membership? When the old method of membership recording was in place the amount of pink highlighting (members not renewing) seemed inordinately high year on year. It seems to me that a lot of emphasis has been placed on gaining new members, perhaps a similar effort towards retaining existing members is needed for the membership numbers to grow, otherwise we just seem to have a revolving door policy. On the other hand it maybe that Radio sailing is just something which at first glance seems deceptively easy and it is only after you have tried for a while that you find that to successfully compete in races around marks requires a greater level of skill and knowledge than just sailing about (with the wind) and so with what appears to be a so race centric MYA, members are almost bound to come and go. Whether it is desirable to retain members not so committed to racing their yachts is I suppose a matter of opinion although it is my contention that the MYA should support the full range of Model Yachting disciplines. Darin makes the point that he doesn't see the reserves as excessive, however these have been increasing almost every year since the Acquaint ceased publication, if we could see a progressive in depth budget with policies to drive model yachting forward, rather than just allocation large sums against district budgets without reference to the districts, some of which clearly do not spend those sums for whatever reason this should be done with submitted budgets from the District on an annual basis. I am not saying the Districts should not have the help of some central funding to assist with their administration and to promote the sport/hobby, indeed as a club Abington Park have used MYA funds to build free sailing yachts to promote one facet of our sport to 60 youngsters in the local park over the summer which prior to District funding the ability to do so wouldn't have been available. It almost appears as if the membership fee is agreed by council and then the budgets are set to fit the fee, which seems to me to be putting the cart before the horse, surely realistic budgets should be set and then this would produce a membership fee level based upon the requirement for that year. If indeed the MYA Executive wants to be progressive, which I surely hope they do, then come up with the progressive idea's to move our hobby/sport forward budget realistically for them, set an appropriate fee and I am sure you will then have the backing of almost the entire membership.
  12. Phil So the fact that I offered myself for the position of Acquaint Editor prior to the deadline for nominations counts for nothing then? I think that Alf's point was that the MYA Council is a "shambles like Westminster" being criticised from outside, I suggest the best way you could stop the criticism is to work to the Constitution, follow the protocols, consult with the membership on changes the executive would like to make and amend the Constitution as you go. The original premise of this post still stands which is "Can I have a say on the level of fee's levelled by the MYA" in 2020?" it has been consistently stated that previous administrations have not brought a motion to the members when not seeking to change the membership fee, but then previous administrations haven't taken the reserve fund into a world where we need "aspirational budgets" to justify it! It's not all bad news, I note from the August 2019 meeting minutes that the MYA teams intend to be transparent:- Quote "Transparency of teams working for/on behalf of the MYA. Please be transparent with any decision your team may make, but not necessarily day to day general workings."
  13. Phil I am not sure of the point you are trying to make here, the council acts as a co-ordinated group. or at least should do, so when decisions are made where the procedure of committee or the issuing of motions, voting forms etc do not follow the constitution then of course it is the entire Executive that comes under scrutiny. The continual claiming by the members of the council here that individuals are being targeted and abused is in my opinion merely a tactic to try to diminish the level of the debate to a "he said she said one". As you agree the amendment to the council motion needs to be voted upon first and that you accept voting submissions by post and email, I assume it will be sent out as part of the voting forms to Club Secretaries so they can have a say on the amendment or the motion? As an aside I noticed that the Acquaint Editor role hasn't been included in the list for nominations, despite it clearly still being an Executive Council post in the constitution, is this error likely to be rectified?
  14. Darin Are you seriously suggesting the membership won't understand the whole sentence? "The junior membership subscription shall be half the affiliated membership subscription, which for 2020 shall be reduced from £14 to £10." Are you clutching at straws or what?
  15. Darin I am sorry I don't see any criticism of any one individual here, all I see is a lively debate about the rights of the membership to have an MYA council which is determined to act within the Constitution whilst overseeing the sport in which we all partake, if the council were to do this then they might find more support amongst the wavering membership. The MYA Executive should act on the memberships behalf and be governed by their wishes, personally I think the problems are arising because actions are being taken by the council without reference to that constitution and when some members point this out they are accused of "spin doctoring " or now attacking individual volunteers. If the council truly feel that clauses within the constitution are stifling the progress of change within the MYA they can bring amendments before the membership either at AGM or by EGM and explain their position in order affect a change. the processes of Governance of unincorporated bodies of which the MYA is one are laid out in it's constitution if as a council you find these unacceptable then amend them by motions to the membership or work within the rules.
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