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philholliday

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About philholliday

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    MYA Vice Chairman
  • Birthday 31/03/1950

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  • First Name
    Phil
  • Last Name
    Holliday

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  1. I hardly think that something approaching six months for the membership to consider the wording of the document can be considered a rush. Phase 1 is now over and comments have been made ,phase 2 the review and polishing is now about to start with over a month before reporting recommendations back to Council. There will then be nearly 2 months before an EGM. More than enough time and certainly not “a few days “ as you infer. 1) how long does it take to read, digest, and comment on 8 pages? - many people read a whole book in a matter of days. 2)who says the EGM is a “take it or leave it” situation? No agenda has been set as yet. Wait till you have some facts before making such statements
  2. Following on from Darins post I would add that there is no "Grace" period as is commonly assumed. Membership returns are due on Jan 1st. After 31st January membership privileges may be removed. If you wish to call this a "Grace" period then so be it but waiting till the end of January, or beyond, simply delays the issuing of the year book which only goes out to paid up members. None of this is ideal and I am not aware of a system that would suit everyone but it is what it is and many things are focused on January 1st making it a very busy time for the administrators. One idea that has been put forward by several member clubs is to move the AGM to give more time for the clubs to collect the fees once they know what those fees are. This is an idea that council consider worth exploring and is why in the proposed constitution the AGM date would not be fixed as rigidly as it is now although other factors such as accounting dates, summer holiday period, etc come into play so that the scope for moving the AGM is still somewhat limited. It is also fair to say that whatever date the AGM is held on needs to be in the calendar at the beginning of the year (at the latest) in order that all arrangements can be made. More discussion............ I would not normally pre-empt our DCO but he is out of the office until later today so I am putting up the attached file which will be on the main news section of the website later today. EGM 10.1.docx
  3. Just a quick correction here, This is not correct. The last major event held in the UK was the IOM Worlds nearly a decade ago. The constitution then was not the same as the one currently in force and the RRS and appendix E were also different. Needless to say the Officers of the MYA Council are working on positive solutions to move this forward as soon as possible and I hope that everyone else will approach this with a "can do" attitude as well.
  4. so if the council were to decide to postpone the EGM when should the date be set for another one to get a new constitution in place? 6 weeks? 6 months? 12months? Without setting an end date this will go on for ever because we all know that 100% approval will never happen and we will have another "Brexit" scenario. In the meantime what do we do about the present constitution which is unworkable? Changes are very necessary and are needed before the World Championships at West Kirby in June. Lets have your ideas
  5. I do not believe that I have missed the point at all. The views of the 3 vice presidents currently on this forum are very much being considered but it is only the view of 3 out of 15 vice presidents of the Association. Whilst I accept that not everyone wishes to put their head over the parapet to get involved in a public discussion and there may be other VP's with similar views but it is also true that both I and other council officers have been contacted by several VP's offering support for this move and also constructive ideas on further improvements. No one expects this ,or any other, document to be perfect and it will continue to evolve over time but it enables everything to move forward. It is interesting that whilst some individuals seem to enjoy picking over the minutiae of our constitution in order to keep the council officers in order they are quite happy to ignore the constitution when it suits themselves. For the last few years every single radio sailing event sailed in this country has been sailed incorrectly and used the wrong RRS (If you stick to the strict wording of our constitution). This is just one example of the necessity for change now and not in a few months or years.
  6. I would have hoped for far more posts to have been made here so that a representative view of our membership could be heard. With only 6 people involved (7 with me) it can hardly be described as representative. It is also disappointing that the comments are virtually all negative with no positive ideas for improvement on what council believe is a very positive step forward from a virtually unworkable constitution to something that we can all work with for the future, or maybe the fact that there are only 6 voices being heard here indicates that the vast majority of the membership are in agreement with this move? Henry has produced a very good comparison chart between the old and the proposed but even this only picks on some of the changes, not all. Why is this? Are you afraid to actually admit that many of the changes are actually a good idea and long overdue? I have recently seen a letter that is being circulated around the clubs which amongst other things states "There are also several crucial areas where because of the constitutional significance of such areas it has always been up to the full membership to agree a change of course, whereas this Council has decided to take that choice away from the membership into solely its own hands." This is a complete reversal of the truth. The right of our membership to vote on constitutional change was removed from the constitution many years ago, quite how this was achieved and by whom is not clear - maybe one of the long serving, knowledgable, VP's can enlighten us - this council has put that right to vote back into the constitution. Make your arguments by all means but make them in a positive light with suggestions one how to move forward . The present constitution is outdated and unworkable and we must move forward.
  7. philholliday

    IOM's wanted

    Datchet Water RSC are looking for some IOM's that could be refurbished and used as loan and demonstration boats to encourage more "big boat" sailors from the club to join in with our radio sailing activities. Anything will be considered but funds are limited. If you have something suitable then contact me on 07776 231402 or email phil@k7yachts.com
  8. Yet again you cherry pick individual words or phrases to suit your argument. I resisted the temptation to respond to your earlier post yesterday but your continued misrepresentations today are becoming boring and offensive. You pick on the word "sport" as used by Darin and insinuate that this is a problem. What sort of twisted mentality can not look at what we do and not see the boats sailing? Sailing is a global sport, represented in the Olympic Games for over a hundred years, and, incidentally, one at which GBR excel. I am proud to have been part of the sport for over 60 years and the efforts of this council and its volunteers has resulted in our branch of the sport being formally recognised by Sport England what more of an endorsement do you need? You even imply that golf is a hobby and not a sport, I am sure that Rory McKilroy and a few million others would disagree. You want council to do more to retain members as opposed to promoting the sport to new members and yet the simple fact is that all organisations have a natural turnover of members for a variety of reasons and the upfront promotion of the sport is vital to keep new blood coming in and this is why it is the no 1 aim of the MYA as stated at the very beginning of our constitution, a constitution to which I believe the likes of yourself, Chris Durrant, Roger Stollery etc had a hand in writing. Nowhere does that same constitution mention retention of members and for a very good reason. Retention of members is a very individual thing and once someone joins one of our clubs their early experiences are entirely done to that club and its members, if they stay or if they go has nothing to do with an annual affiliation of £14 or £10 it is all about their experiences with fellow club members. Maybe they just get fed up with the constant arguing and bickering at the pond side that we hear about. In my own clubs we have only lost members in the last three years for reasons of illness but then at the pond side we have great camaraderie and excellent support for each other. Member retention is important but the prime responsibility for this is at the grass roots of our sport - our clubs and its members , you and me. You suggest following your example of informal teaching days (seminars ?). A great idea and one which the MYA trialled in 2018 for race team training with a good degree of success but in 2019 when this was continued the response was so low that the events had to be cancelled. It is being taken up by some districts and is probably better held at this, more local, level and many clubs run their own training and coaching. There is no need for the MYA to be acting as "Big Brother" in this area, the framework exists and if funding is needed to assist with training then the district budgets are there to help. You quote a lag time of 6 months between a DC giving notice and the position being advertised. Why is this an issue for the council? a DC is appointed by the District Committee and sits on council on their behalf. The council do not select, appoint, or dismiss the DC's this is entirely an issue for the district and its clubs. If the usual DC is, for whatever reason, unable to attend a meeting then the district council are encouraged to send an alternative representative.
  9. A very welcome post from Roger who has highlighted the main issues facing us right now. 1) How do we communicate better? 2) How do we grow the sport? No doubt everyone will have their own view on how to achieve these goals, my views are set out below. 1) A printed paper newsletter distributed nationwide is impractical in todays society on both cost, administration, and environmental grounds so an electronic newsletter that can be downloaded and printed in limited numbers for distribution to non computer owners (if needed) is an obvious solution. This is currently in hand. A suitable volunteer to put this newsletter together on a regular basis (bi-annually or quarterly depending on content submission) has come forward and will be looking to get the first edition out in the near future. The success of this will depend entirely on the content submitted and will rely on clubs and districts being proactive in submitting their news for inclusion. As Roger so rightly states if you volunteer to help be it at club, district, or national level you will find it both interesting and rewarding and it need not take up too much time , after all, how long would it take for you to send in a short club report every 3 months? Alternatively you could collect all the club reports from your district and forward them as one to the newsletter editor. 2) Promoting (Growing) the sport is the main stated aim of the MYA but numbers have been relatively static for several years. People come and people go but the numbers change very little. I am of the view that the MYA affiliation fee is somewhat irrelevant in this process as over the last 15 years the fee has varied between £5 and £15 and the membership numbers when the fee was £5 were actually 20% less than they are now. If we want to grow our sport we need to market it to a wider audience and we need to do this in a professional way. This will take expertise that the current council do not have and without a suitable, knowledgable, volunteer we will need to outsource the marketing skills needed. Right now we have the perfect opportunity arising to market our sport. We have not only a major event (Worlds @ West Kirby) coming up as a showpiece to get peoples interest, but also we have a ready supply of affordable boats through the DF organisation. In my opinion 2020 will be the best opportunity that we have had to make our sport more visible in a decade. Lets all get behind this and make a difference.
  10. My point is quite simple. Your posts are predominantly laying criticism at the feet of others, especially council either collectively or individually. Your comments are frequently only stating part of the truth in order to bolster your false arguments or are pure speculation about actions that are yet to be taken. Council, at all times, have, and will, act within the written constitution of our organisation. The Acquaint Editor position has not been filled for several years which is fairly logical as we don't have an Acquaint to edit, so under Constitution para 9.4 there is no one for re-nomination or re-election, Para 12(e) only asks that a "request for nominations of Officers" is sent out, it does not state that each officer position should be specified. So unless I have missed something in the Constitution I do not see what you are going on about. I'm not surprised that you have been turned off Alf but its a good job that some of us are happy to get on with it rather than trying to find something to be negative about and have a whinge. At least we have a written constitution to argue over unlike the poor ********s in the Palace of Westminster.
  11. It is worth remembering that this forum is here for healthy debate by those members that wish to do so. Rubbishing other contributors and trying to imply a co-ordinated effort by a group to undermine the due process of our AGM is, quite frankly, a childish act by those who should know better. As I have previously stated my comments on this forum are my own and made without discussion with others. The discussion is here in the open for all to see. I am sure the same applies to Mike who is a long time member of our sport and contributes greatly at both local and national level. Chris's procedural lecture on how amendments are treated is absolutely correct and no one has sought to do anything differently other than requesting the author to consider the wording. Chris will be well aware that the author(s) were notified of receipt of the amendment and a statement to the effect that it will be included in the AGM agenda. Quite frankly - End of Story.
  12. In response to Tiggy_Cat Unfortunately there has been some partial quoting and mis quoting of this and I will try to give some clarification. You are correct in quoting 12(c) but you must also read 12(b) which stipulates when any motions need to be submitted. The only motion received by 31st August was not relevant to this particular discussion. On 17th October an amendment to the only Council motion at AGM which states "Junior members, as defined in the constitution, will receive free affiliation to the MYA when joining through a member club and included within their membership returns" was received by the Secretary to Council. The amendment as originally submitted proposed " The Junior membership subscription shall be half the affiliated membership subscription, which for 2020 shall be reduced from£14 to £10". I am not aware of any further changes to this amendment submission. The initial view of council was that the first part of the proposal is fine as it is an amendment to the motion itself but that the second part is not as it does not refer to the motion. In addition the wording of the amendment could be interpreted as ambiguous - does the phrase "which for 2020 shall be reduced ....." refer to the Junior membership subscription or to the affiliated membership subscription? Council referred the submission back to the author to consider the wording along with the councils thoughts about the second phrase. At no time has council refused to put this submission on the agenda as the final date for such submissions and the final agenda publication have not yet been reached. If no changes to this submission are made before the deadline then, in accordance with the constitution, it will be placed on the agenda.
  13. I have done some more research into the communication issues particularly in relation to the recent request for someone with expertise to help with promotion and marketing. With no body on council with any experience in this area we decided to go to our membership first for help before maybe spending money on an outside source. Council, via our Digital Communications Officer Austin, emailed everyone in the membership who has given us a valid email for communication purposes . This is a total of 1551 valid addresses out of a total membership currently in excess of 1800. Of these only 861 were opened by the recipient and 7 recipients actually unsubscribed from all MYA emails. Why would you tape up your letter box to prevent the postman from delivering your mail? This helps identify some of the problem. Council are accused of not communicating and yet well over half of the membership either do not give the MYA a communication channel or do not open their mail when it drops on their doormat. Do the same 50%+ not subscribe to the various platforms available? if so it is no wonder that we are accused of not communicating even though we are doing the best we can. Maybe we should send individual notices via snail mail at a cost of nearly £1 a time (plus a lot of admin) that would soon use up our reserves!
  14. Austin has posted with ref to communication and I bow to his expertise in this field. He has demonstrated that all the information is out there if you know where to look. So is the problem less about the communication itself and more about education ? Your suggestion for direct mail to all members should definitely be considered for major items such as AGM issues especially relating to finance and constitution matters however I do think that we should be careful not to bombard our members with too many emails as this is likely in my experience to cause members to "turn off" and then maybe miss the important stuff. With regards to next years budget plan I would hope that this is indeed put front and centre in communications to the membership but this is not in my remit alone. The budget is being prepared by our treasurer David Rose and when completed will be discussed by council as a whole and then made available to the wider membership. Looking back through AGM documents for the past decade or so I am struggling to find a budget being presented to the membership anywhere and it would seem that this administration is being innovative in doing so. Perhaps this is a result of listening to our members and trying to improve communication and dialogue with them- something council are continually being accused of not doing!
  15. Before this discussion degenerates into a mini Palace of Westminster style exercise in spinning facts I think it is worth while taking a slight step backwards and look at the individual points raised with a view to a solution rather than trying to imply blame or worse on individuals trying hard to improve our sport to the best of their abilities. References to " justifying the membership fee by fixing budgets some 30% higher than they need to be " and "overinflated budget figures have been set to try to justify a membership fee of £14.00 " implying a deliberate act by the administration to set an improper budget are inflammatory and untrue. Paul's reference to "the MYA hierarchy does not want or value telling its members what’s going on" implies that members regard themselves as members of MYA Council whereas it is really the other way round - MYA Council are the servants of the MYA members. Council is proposed, voted in, and voted out, from and by, its members. I cannot speak for previous administrations of which I was not a member and it is worth saying here that my posts on this forum are my own and are made without consultation with other council members. This administration has aspired from the outset to be open and transparent and this is evidenced by the timely posting of meeting minutes and other information on the website . The information is all there for all members to see and yet we are still being criticised that we don't communicate with our members, obviously something isn't working but what? Do we need to send out detailed instructions to members on how to view and follow the various website items? Maybe members are expecting much more to be going on than is really the case and we need to make a weekly news post to say "Nothing has happened this week" Positive suggestions please. If as Paul says I am wrong about "no news and no one to distribute it" then where is the news? Obviously there is news out there be it club racing, district events, or national events. The bigger the event then the greater the chance of a report being submitted and posted and yet again I would point out that Austin posts all reports that are sent to him. Many club websites are very good at staying up to date with their own activities, district sites have all recently been upgraded and local webmasters are looking after them, class websites are very good at reporting class specific issues, Facebook, Twitter etc, carry a lot of content much of which is already automatically linked to other platforms so do we need a comprehensive link between these various platforms to bring all the news items to the attention of the wider membership? Is this even possible, and who can do it? If anyone feels they have the knowledge, time, and enthusiasm to move this forward then I (and council) would love to hear from them. Setting a positive , aspirational, budget which is targeted at improving and expanding our sport has to be a good thing and especially when the said budget does not impact negatively on our members pockets. In 2018 the income versus expenditure was very close with just £812 surplus or less than 50p/member. In 2019 the budget was set based on the 2018 experiences but due to the reasons already stated this has resulted in a bigger surplus. For 2020 I expect there will be more expenditure than in previous years as we take advantage of the major world championships to promote our sport and I fully expect that to result in a reduction of the reserves currently held. Lets continue this discussion and maybe we will get more members offering their views. At the end of the day this is what we are all wanting - better communication!
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