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Terry Rensch

Racing incident

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Had a situation on an incident looking for guidance.

During a race boat A windward and on starboard sailing to windward mark but outside of zone.

Boat B was on port and tacked onto starboard but leeward of boat A again outside of zone to windward mark, boat A protest boat B for luffing and contact boat B maintained no luff my sails are full and sailing and boat A came down onto boat B and as windward boat should keep clear.

Boat A protested twice both boats maintained their positions and no penalty turn was taken by either boat. Boat A protest boat B and the skipper of boat B was informed. Boat A decided not to proceed with protest as he did not want to complete protest forms and decided to drop protest. Race team had a problem as a contact was made and both boats did not do a turn.

Observer reports were in conclusive due to incomplete story and it relied on each skippers version of events which are as above.

The time limit expired and it was suggested that both skippers get disqualified due to no penalty by either of them, boat B stated that as time limit expired, and he was ready to go to a protest hearing so he would protest the race committee

What would have been the correct outcome of this situation given the situation. Incidentally boat A retired from that race.


Terry Rensch

Chairman MYA

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There was contact and subsequently boat A retired. End of incident. Rules have been satisfied.

John


John Ball

IOM CAN 307 (V8)

In my private capacity

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Questions:

How long after B reached a close-hauled course did contact occur? Was A given room to keep clear?

Why did race committee not protest the unresolved incident?

A can take a penalty (retiring) and still protest. Taking a penalty does not mean that A accepted that she broke a rule.

Gordon

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Hi Gordon

Both boats were close hauled and contact was made shortly after B tacked to leeward of A and was sailing to the windward mark both boats were moving at the same speed close hauled.

Boat A went off to complete the protest forms, boat B was informed, the time limit expired when Boat A withdrew protest due to unwilling to complete protest form. Race committee had an un resolved contact so both skippers were called. Boat A was insistent that he was the innocent party Boat B was ready for protest but time had now elapsed and was not given opportunity to present his case. Boat A decided to withdraw and retire from race.

My query is what would a race committee do in this situation if you have a protest from Boat A on and off the water boat B responded in both cases to the protest stating that he tacked onto starboard leeward but A bore down on him, then after the time limit has expired withdrew your protest but still maintain that you were the offended boat.

How would a race committee deal with this situation?


Terry Rensch

Chairman MYA

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I must admit it is a bit of an awkward one but by the rules no protest was submitted, it does not matter what A said he was doing if the protest forms are no received then no protest has been made the only recourse the race officer has is to disqualify booth boats as there was a contact which was unresolved.


Mike Ewart

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I must admit it is a bit of an awkward one but by the rules no protest was submitted, it does not matter what A said he was doing if the protest forms are no received then no protest has been made the only recourse the race officer has is to disqualify booth boats as there was a contact which was unresolved.

 

So boat 'A' knows he is in the right and takes no penalty and is not interested in protesting.

Boat 'B' just carries on racing regardless of right or wrong and also does'nt protest.

Contact is called and observers can give a good account of the incident, clearly able to ID right and wrong.

The only recourse for the RO is to dsq. both boats????

I would hope not.

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A couple of points might be worth making.

RRS A5 tells us that only the protest committee may take (other) scoring actions that worsen a boat’s score. So no, the RO does not have the power to DSQ anyone.

Following an incident on the water, a protest from a boat, the Race Committee, or the Protest Committee *may* be made; a protest is not mandatory (RRS 60.1, 60.2, and 60.3).

Where the Race Committee is aware of an unresolved incident, it is considered good practice in radio sailing in the UK for the RC to protest the boats involved for a (gross) breach of the rules (MYA Race Management Guide). (When acting as an RO, I would consider boat on boat contact to be a gross breach of the rules, but not all ROs are of the same opinion.)

It is then for the Protest Committee to hear the protest. Note that, although the time limit for protesting might have expired, the Protest Committee can extend the time limit for good reason (RRS 61.3).

(Where the RO is aware of an unresolved incident, and then learns that one of the boats involved has retired, it is my opinion that the RO may conclude the incident is now resolved. Not all ROs are of the same opinion.)

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I would agree with Lester, one boat retires = incident resolved. If A had not retired then the Race Committee could have protested.

On the incident itself - the statement that A and B were sailing at the same speed close-hauled does suggest that B had completed her tack and accelerated up to close-hauled, which would imply that A had been given room to keep clear

Gordon

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Thank you all for your comments on this matter which was a difficult call from the race committees point of view, we did have a suggestion to DSQ both boats but I discarded that as you cannot without a hearing, the expire of the time limit was the unknown element thank you Lester for that clarity

I totally agree with Gordon's comment on both boats close hauled and sailing for me it was a windward leeward situation which was masked by the actions of Boat A withdrawing his protest due to form incompletion etc and Boat B left in a situation of not defending his actions and we all believed time limit had expired. Boat A comments during the discussions with both skippers eluded to the problem when he stated that boat B was trying to luff him!!!

The suggestion to DSQ both boats came from someone who is perceived to know the rules, which is the reason I posted this situation on the forum. Knowledge and the correct information helps all understand the rules a little better especially when running an event.

Thank you

Sailterry


Terry Rensch

Chairman MYA

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