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Peter Shepherd

MYA Fees 2020, Can I have a say?

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Darin,

 

 Then is Chris mistaken that the 5 clubs motion was submitted in appropriate format and time frame?    If the assertation , to quote him " that the wording in this motion amendment was unacceptable to it in that format,"    clause 12  doesn't seem to give the Council discretion over wording or even content.

 

Edited by tiggy_cat
clarification

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Darin

Are you seriously suggesting the membership won't understand the whole sentence?

  •  

"The junior membership subscription shall be half the affiliated membership subscription, which for 2020 shall be reduced from £14 to £10."

Are you clutching at straws or what?

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58 minutes ago, Peter Shepherd said:

Darin

Are you seriously suggesting the membership won't understand the whole sentence?

  •  

"The junior membership subscription shall be half the affiliated membership subscription, which for 2020 shall be reduced from £14 to £10."

Are you clutching at straws or what?

?? Not sure your point here Peter.

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1 hour ago, tiggy_cat said:

Darin,

 

 Then is Chris mistaken that the 5 clubs motion was submitted in appropriate format and time frame?    If the assertation , to quote him " that the wording in this motion amendment was unacceptable to it in that format,"    clause 12  doesn't seem to give the Council discretion over wording or even content.

 

Clause 12 makes no mention of what should happen to amendments to a motion, other than 12 f which states what the timescales are for amendments. 12 c specifically mentions motions, with no mention of amendments. Obviously your view on the ambiguity will probably be coloured by which side of the discussion you are on.

If as the council took the view at the time, they had not submitted a motion regarding  senior membership fees then you would consider that the amendment introduced a motion, not purely an amendment to the original motion.

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It may be too late but can I throw a few pebbles in this current pool of comments and debate please?

On the 'amendment'.  It strikes me as being an attempt to stir up a debate on something that, for one reason or another, the Executive seems to feel doesn't need discussing.  A composite proposal like the 'amendment' is doomed because it would be impossible to take a vote on one part until the other part has been debated and decided.  If one wants to get things accepted, then the chairman must be able to ask the meeting for a yes, no, or abstention on one item.  That's enough of that; anyway why shouldn't 'juniors' get a free affiliation, they are part of our future and should be given as much encouragement as possible.

On the subject of the acquaint and publicised information.  In my former Radio Sailing 'life' I spent a number of years as the author of a 'Small Yacht' column in a publication which, as experiences showed, was read around the world.  When I was being persuaded by my family to get out of my chair and go sailing again I met an old friend Council Member fresh from the latest Council Meeting who uttered words to the effect "what do you think of taking on the editorship of the MYA Acquaint?".  My wife immediately exclaimed "we want you to go sailing again - BUT YOU'RE NOT WRITING ABOUT IT!"  She remembers how much time I spent punching the keyboard after spending a lot of my time at radio sailing meetings scribbling notes, taking pictures, and analysing results sheets to meet the publication deadlines.  In those years I managed to build up a selection of contacts overseas who would occasionally feed me reports on international events in their country.  Even so, it was hard work gathering up enough information to make each month's column interesting, informative, amusing, and readable - sometimes it worked!  Preparing such a 'newsletter' takes time and a lot of input; in the case of the acquaint that input would have to come from 'people who were there' in the case of race reports, and 'those who know how' in the case of useful information for newcomers to our sport.  It would be all very well for someone to volunteer to be 'editor' but it would be thankless task to wring out enough material to present a rounded information package.  The late Chris Jackson did a marvellous job with his 'Model Yachting Newsletter', but even he could not keep it going for much over a couple of years.  Perhaps the modern equivalent would be some sort of 'Blog', but they tend to be the somewhat personalised ramblings of a single person.  There are clubs around the districts that, habitually, circulate their membership with short reports after each club racing gathering.  Perhaps they could include the 'editor' in each of those circulations which could form the basis of a sort of acquaint with added news on the latest 'official' updates on rules and 'MYA matters'.  I suppose that sort of thing might snowball and everyone could become more involved - stranger things have happened!

The AGM.  2018 was the first I have attended in my 'modern era' and, although there was some warm discussion, I felt that it was a pretty tame affair compared to some I remember from the past when the likes of Norman Hatfield, Peter Maskell, and even Chris Dicks presided.  There were often quite fiery and loud debates then, along with serious discussions on things like the target of 2000 members for the year 2000.  There used to be reports read out and even activities of Auditors mentioned; voting was carried out with club delegates having a card indicating the number of votes they could submit - all 'real AGM' stuff.

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Good morning all

I have just seen the recent posting by Mike Kemp relating to the Motion 1 Amendment.

 

'On the 'amendment'.  It strikes me as being an attempt to stir up a debate on something that, for one reason or another, the Executive seems to feel doesn't need discussing.  A composite proposal like the 'amendment' is doomed because it would be impossible to take a vote on one part until the other part has been debated and decided.  If one wants to get things accepted, then the chairman must be able to ask the meeting for a yes, no, or abstention on one item.’’ 

 

At first sight this seems, reading it exactly as it is written, like yet another attempt within this Forum by someone on Council to rubbish a view on a matter genuinely held by members not within Council and to pre-empt and dissuade full discussion and voting throughout the membership, which is very sad, and I do hope not the case, as it would infer the dreadful situation that Council sadly believes itself omnipotent, something that has never happened before either in my experience as both an ex Council member and now an ordinary member.

---------------------------------------------

Let me relate for members the very simple procedural situation in the matter of motions and motion amendments which should happen this AGM .

An amendment motion (or indeed motions) must always be considered first, and voting for or against such amendment is always taken first in the exact terms of the motion.

If the amendment motion succeeds, with more votes for it than against it, then it is passed, and then the original motion automatically fails and is set aside.

If the amendment motion fails, with more votes against it than for it, then at that time, and ONLY at that time, can the original motion then be considered and voted upon, and once again it is necessary for more votes to be cast in favour of it than against it in order for it to succeed.

The original motion can never be simply ‘passed’ by a simple assumption of the proposer that the motion is acceptable.

This is the way in which the amendment motion and motion itself must be presented by Council to the membership at the appropriate date and well in time for paper and email voting replies to be received by StC 7 days before the AGM.

---------------------------------

Let me give an example if proper process is not followed and give members a case study:

Council has indicated that it intends to present to the membership for its consideration a ‘new constitution’ that it has been working on, and with the implication is that it is significantly different to the existing one.

It will clearly need a draft copy to be first presented to the membership for their perusal and comment – rather like a parliamentary White Paper.

The membership will then consider this document at its leisure and indicate in due course to Council through its club’s officers’ variations and changes that it considers necessary, and [probably numerous] discussions then take place with the Council delegated officers and other members experienced in such matters to agree a version satisfactory to all.

This process will undoubtedly/usually take some months for that group to consider (major constitution changes always do!) although luck may prevail and little may eventually need to be changed.

 

At the end of that period, however long it may be, a document agreed to be satisfactory to all clubs will be submitted to a General Meeting with the assurance and reasonable belief that no changes are necessary – and will get properly voted through with no dissent.

 

The worrying alternative if this process is not followed?

Council submits a motion to a General Meeting proposing a document, which whilst such document is satisfactory to Council, may be totally unsatisfactory in many ways to the membership, and potentially numerous motion amendments are quite validly submitted by some or all of the 100 MYA clubs.

The meeting considering all these then goes mad trying to consider these numerous amendments, all of which may be on different points, or similar points but with different alternatives, and nothing can be concluded because the simple expedient of full consultation with the rank and file membership has been ignored.

As members will hopefully appreciate, my simple point is that consultation is always vital on major matters affecting the membership and its relationship with MYA to enable member confidence and support, rather than an assumption that it will simply accept the Council’s proposal.

Regards to all

Chris Durant

 

 

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It is worth remembering that this forum is here for healthy debate by those members that wish to do so.

Rubbishing other contributors and trying to imply a co-ordinated effort by a group to undermine the due process of our AGM is, quite frankly, a childish act by those who should know better. As I have previously stated my comments on this forum are my  own and made without discussion with others. The discussion is here in the open for all to see. I am sure the same applies to Mike who is a long time member of our sport and contributes greatly at both local and national level.

Chris's procedural lecture on how amendments are treated is absolutely correct and no one has sought to do anything differently other than requesting the author to consider the wording. Chris will be well aware that the author(s) were notified of receipt of the amendment and a statement to the effect that it will be included in the AGM agenda. Quite frankly - End of Story.

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Phil

I am not sure of the point you are trying to make here, the council acts as a co-ordinated group. or at least should do, so when decisions are made where the procedure of committee or the issuing of motions, voting forms etc do not follow the constitution then of course it is the entire Executive that comes under scrutiny. The continual claiming by the members of the council here that individuals are being targeted and abused is in my opinion merely a tactic to try to diminish the level of the debate to a "he said she said one". 

As you agree the amendment to the council motion needs to be voted upon first and that you accept voting submissions by post and email, I assume it will be sent out as part of the voting forms to Club Secretaries so they can have a say on the amendment or the motion?

As an aside I noticed that the Acquaint Editor role hasn't been included in the list for nominations, despite it clearly still being an Executive Council post in the constitution, is this error likely to  be rectified?

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Having followed this thread as a sailing member of the MYA it has convinced me never to volunteer to the council - it is too much like the shambles in Westminster being criticised from outside..

Edited by Alf Reynolds
missed last phrase

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My point is quite simple.

Your posts are predominantly laying criticism at the feet of others, especially council either collectively or individually. Your comments are frequently only stating part of the truth in order to bolster your false arguments or are pure speculation about actions that are yet to be taken.

Council, at all times, have, and will, act within the written constitution of our organisation.

The Acquaint Editor position has not been filled for several years which is fairly logical as we don't have an Acquaint to edit, so under Constitution para 9.4 there is no one for re-nomination or re-election, Para 12(e) only asks that a "request for nominations of Officers" is sent out, it does not state that each officer position should be  specified. So unless I have missed something in the Constitution I do not see what you are going on about.

I'm not surprised that you have been turned off Alf but its a good job that some of us are happy to get on with it rather than trying to find something to be negative about and have a whinge. At least we have a written constitution to argue over unlike the poor ********s in the Palace of Westminster.

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Phil

 

So the fact that I offered myself for the position of Acquaint Editor prior to the deadline for nominations counts for nothing then?

I think that Alf's point was that the MYA Council is a "shambles like Westminster" being criticised from outside, I suggest the best way you could stop the criticism is to work to the Constitution, follow the protocols, consult with the membership on changes the executive would like to make and amend the Constitution as you go. 

The original premise of this post still stands which is "Can I have a say on the level of fee's levelled by the MYA" in 2020?" it has been consistently stated that previous administrations have not brought a motion to the members when not seeking to change the membership fee, but then previous administrations haven't taken the reserve fund into a world where we need "aspirational budgets" to justify it!

It's not all bad news, I note from the August 2019 meeting minutes that the MYA teams intend to be transparent:-

Quote "Transparency of teams working for/on behalf of the MYA.  Please be transparent with any decision your team may make, but not  necessarily day to day general workings."

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Peter Shepherd said:

Phil

 

So the fact that I offered myself for the position of Acquaint Editor prior to the deadline for nominations counts for nothing then?

I think that Alf's point was that the MYA Council is a "shambles like Westminster" being criticised from outside, I suggest the best way you could stop the criticism is to work to the Constitution, follow the protocols, consult with the membership on changes the executive would like to make and amend the Constitution as you go. 

The original premise of this post still stands which is "Can I have a say on the level of fee's levelled by the MYA" in 2020?" it has been consistently stated that previous administrations have not brought a motion to the members when not seeking to change the membership fee, but then previous administrations haven't taken the reserve fund into a world where we need "aspirational budgets" to justify it!

It's not all bad news, I note from the August 2019 meeting minutes that the MYA teams intend to be transparent:-

Quote "Transparency of teams working for/on behalf of the MYA.  Please be transparent with any decision your team may make, but not  necessarily day to day general workings."

 

 

Hi Peter,

I suspect that as you didn’t get nominated that we can’t put you on the voting form for Acquaint editor, however the constitution does allow us to accept your offer and co opt you. I am sure that the membership will thank you for your kind offer.

I understand that the council may have another offer as well so it looks like we may  have a communication team 👍

 

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12 minutes ago, Darin Ballington said:

I understand that the council may have another offer as well so it looks like we may  have a communication team 👍

We will need a budget for that then 🤔

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Mike Kemp's posting at the end of last month opened up some important issues in the debate about the level of membership subscriptions, which has been well covered subsequently. Although money is involved it is about following the Constitution, which in 11.1 intends that 'all classes' of membership 'shall' be proposed in a motion by Council. This has not been followed properly and by putting a motion it allows the amendment under this clause. 

Much more importantly is the question of communication between MYA Council and members, which is at an all-time low and prompts existing members to doubt whether they want to join the MYA for another year, because individually members receive so little. The previous website used to highlight in pink those who haven't rejoined and these numbered more than twice the affiliated members, so Council must do more to keep members on board; maybe by reducing the affiliation subscription to £10! 

The MYA desperately need to have a newsletter for members to enjoy and keep them informed, although it may not be a hard copy coming through our letterboxes. 

I always admired Mike's effort in producing really good and informative articles in Model Boats Magazine, which continued for many years. He has done his bit and we should not be expecting him to be the hub for a new MYA acquaint/newsletter. However, we need someone to do this so that members can feel that they are getting something for their money and that they are involved in the MYA's activities.

Incidentally, the editor of that magazine desperately needs information on model yachting and has published a 5 page article on 'sail setting' in the latest winter edition, which is still on the bookshelves.

It would have been good if Council had listed the Acquaint Editor on their recent officer nomination form, because Constitution still has this role as an Executive Officer.

The current Council is in great need of help as many of the few remaining officers are covering several roles and are having to work harder than they should. Council is also short of skills that other officers could be providing, and volunteers should not be afraid to offer their services to Council not only to share the workload, but also to help guide it with more diverse views. However, Council must accept volunteers when they are put themselves forward.Council are also lacking help from district councillors, as currently there is not a full set at Council meetings. Volunteer and you will find it immensely interesting and rewarding and you will be helping to make sport prosper.

In putting forward the amendment by the 5 clubs there was no criticism of the hard work being undertaken by officers, but more about the lack of information about Council plans and the excessive amount of money being built up without any member benefit. If you reduce the cost of being an MYA member, then there is a good chance that there will be more members as a result. More members is what the MYA needs and perhaps a new dream figure that Mike mentioned, which Peter Maskell had in the late 1980s; 2000 members in the year 2000.

Perhaps now the target should be 2020 in 2020!

Edited by Roger S

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A very welcome post from Roger who has highlighted the main issues facing us right now. 1) How do we communicate better? 2) How do we grow the sport?  No doubt everyone will have their own view on how to achieve these goals, my views are set out below.

1) A printed paper newsletter distributed nationwide is impractical in todays society on both cost, administration, and environmental grounds so an electronic newsletter that can be downloaded and printed in limited numbers for distribution to non computer owners (if needed) is an obvious solution.  This is  currently in hand. A suitable volunteer to put this newsletter together on a regular basis (bi-annually or quarterly depending on content submission) has come forward and will be looking to get the first edition out in the near future. The success of this will depend entirely on the content submitted and will rely on clubs and districts being proactive in submitting their news for inclusion. As Roger so rightly states if you volunteer to help be it at club, district, or national level you will find it both interesting and rewarding and it need not take up too much time , after all, how long would it take for you to send in a short club report every 3 months?  Alternatively you could collect all the club reports from your district and forward them as one to the newsletter editor.

2) Promoting (Growing) the sport is the main stated aim of the MYA but numbers have been relatively static for several years. People come and people go but the numbers change very little. I am of the view that the MYA affiliation fee is somewhat irrelevant in this process as over the last 15 years the fee has varied between £5 and £15 and the membership numbers when the fee was £5 were actually 20% less than they are now. If we want to grow our sport we need to market it to a wider audience and we need to do this in a professional way. This will take expertise that the current council do not have and without a suitable, knowledgable, volunteer we will need to outsource the marketing skills needed. Right now we have the perfect opportunity arising to market our sport. We have not only a major event (Worlds @ West Kirby) coming up as a showpiece to get peoples interest, but also we have a ready supply of affordable boats through the DF organisation. In my opinion 2020 will be the best opportunity that we have had to make our sport more visible in a decade. Lets all get behind this and make a difference.

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21 hours ago, Roger S said:

In putting forward the amendment by the 5 clubs there was no criticism of the hard work being undertaken by officers, but more about the lack of information about Council plans and the excessive amount of money being built up without any member benefit. If you reduce the cost of being an MYA member, then there is a good chance that there will be more members as a result.

 

I know that I may be at odds with some affiliated members, but I dont see that the reserves are excessive and I dont see that the affiliation fee should be set on the money in the bank. That way we will never have the funds to do anything other than just exist.

We have had this discussion at the last few AGM's and the members have repeatedly voted that around £14.00 is acceptable.

What I fear is going to happen is that we will have a newer audience (by moving the AGM) who will just see a meeting that is preoccupied with discussion over the same thing (that costs 26p per day), and will be turned off to the real challenge which is in telling those who have not seen our sport before how great it is.

With regard to the amendment, I do not see that this has anything to do with communication or planning. If this was so critical to the member clubs why not put in a motion asking for the council to publish a plan at the start of the year, or a motion requesting that the membership fee should include a magazine.

At least then the council would know what the members require of it, and the council can decide which part of what they currently provide is dropped. 

Finally,

I just dont see how reducing the fee from £14.00 to £10.00 will encourage more members, If someone doesnt think that what they currently get is worth £14.00 then saving £4.00 is not going to change that view, maybe someone can explain how they value the services they get?

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A couple of points here, firstly Darin maintains that the amendment has nothing to do with communication or planning, however if the MYA Executive were effectively communicating it's planning for the future to the membership then perhaps the clubs involved in the production of the amendment wouldn't have felt it necessary to do so. Indeed just following the correct protocols for sending out motions and amendments would be a start.

Phil Holiday makes the point that people come and people go but membership numbers remain largely the same, what are the numbers of members who disappear each year as a percentage of the overall membership? When the old method of membership recording was in place the amount of pink highlighting (members not renewing) seemed inordinately high year on year.

It seems to me that a lot of emphasis has been placed on gaining new members,  perhaps a similar effort towards retaining existing members is needed for the membership numbers to grow, otherwise we just seem to have a revolving door policy. On the other hand it maybe that Radio sailing is just something which at first glance seems deceptively easy and it is only after you have tried for a while that you find that to successfully compete in races around marks requires a greater level of skill and knowledge than just sailing about (with the wind) and so with what appears to be a so race centric MYA, members are almost bound to come and go.

Whether it is desirable to retain members not so committed to racing their yachts is I suppose a matter of opinion although it is my contention that the MYA should support the full range of Model Yachting disciplines.

Darin makes the point that he doesn't see the reserves as excessive, however these have been increasing almost every year since the Acquaint ceased publication, if we could see a progressive in depth budget with policies to drive model yachting forward, rather than just allocation large sums against district budgets without reference to the districts, some of which clearly do not spend those sums for whatever reason this should be done with submitted budgets from the District on an annual basis. I am not saying the Districts should not have the help of some central funding to assist with their administration and to promote the sport/hobby, indeed as a club Abington Park have used MYA funds to build free sailing yachts to promote one facet of our sport to 60 youngsters in the local park over the summer which prior to District funding the ability to do so wouldn't have been available.

It almost appears as if the membership fee is agreed by council and then the budgets are set to fit the fee, which seems to me to be putting the cart before the horse, surely realistic budgets should be set and then this would produce a membership fee level based upon the requirement for that year. If indeed the MYA Executive wants to be progressive, which I surely hope they do, then come up with the progressive idea's to move our hobby/sport forward budget realistically for them, set an appropriate fee and I am sure you will then have the backing of almost the entire membership.

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10 hours ago, Peter Shepherd said:

A couple of points here, firstly Darin maintains that the amendment has nothing to do with communication or planning, however if the MYA Executive were effectively communicating it's planning for the future to the membership then perhaps the clubs involved in the production of the amendment wouldn't have felt it necessary to do so. Indeed just following the correct protocols for sending out motions and amendments would be a start.

Phil Holiday makes the point that people come and people go but membership numbers remain largely the same, what are the numbers of members who disappear each year as a percentage of the overall membership? When the old method of membership recording was in place the amount of pink highlighting (members not renewing) seemed inordinately high year on year.

It seems to me that a lot of emphasis has been placed on gaining new members,  perhaps a similar effort towards retaining existing members is needed for the membership numbers to grow, otherwise we just seem to have a revolving door policy. On the other hand it maybe that Radio sailing is just something which at first glance seems deceptively easy and it is only after you have tried for a while that you find that to successfully compete in races around marks requires a greater level of skill and knowledge than just sailing about (with the wind) and so with what appears to be a so race centric MYA, members are almost bound to come and go.

Whether it is desirable to retain members not so committed to racing their yachts is I suppose a matter of opinion although it is my contention that the MYA should support the full range of Model Yachting disciplines.

Darin makes the point that he doesn't see the reserves as excessive, however these have been increasing almost every year since the Acquaint ceased publication, if we could see a progressive in depth budget with policies to drive model yachting forward, rather than just allocation large sums against district budgets without reference to the districts, some of which clearly do not spend those sums for whatever reason this should be done with submitted budgets from the District on an annual basis. I am not saying the Districts should not have the help of some central funding to assist with their administration and to promote the sport/hobby, indeed as a club Abington Park have used MYA funds to build free sailing yachts to promote one facet of our sport to 60 youngsters in the local park over the summer which prior to District funding the ability to do so wouldn't have been available.

It almost appears as if the membership fee is agreed by council and then the budgets are set to fit the fee, which seems to me to be putting the cart before the horse, surely realistic budgets should be set and then this would produce a membership fee level based upon the requirement for that year. If indeed the MYA Executive wants to be progressive, which I surely hope they do, then come up with the progressive idea's to move our hobby/sport forward budget realistically for them, set an appropriate fee and I am sure you will then have the backing of almost the entire membership.

Do you think there is any link to the fact that those clubs (in the main )are in a district that cannot find a volunteer to be a councillor? 

Is it the council’s role to keep people in the sport?

What have the clubs asked from the MYA to keep affiliated members keen?

Would a central source of information keep them keen?

Would a district source of information keep them keen?

Would regular race reports keep them keen?

Would a central calendar that Gave them the chance to sail against others keep them keen?

Would a system that allows them to sail against similar and certified boats keep them keen?

Would a group of people who will answer questions about our sport keep them keen?

Would a group that encourages clubs and the associated structure around it keep them keen?

Don’t tell me it’s the £4.00 that keeps them keen!

As before genuine difference of view on the affiliation fee.
 

Why should the fee not be £14.00?

Please put a value on how much you consider the elements that the MYA provides are worth-ignore that we currently have a surplus.

Let me start,

How much would you pay to advertise a boat for sale on a dedicated central sport specific site? 50p, £1.00, £5.00 what do eBay charge?

Lets start with this, before we look at how much other items are worth.

 

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Despite the fact that largely the questions I have asked throughout this thread have gone unanswered, I am quite prepared to have a go at answering yours Darin although most of them appear to be asking my opinion, and indeed some of my answers may yet throw up more questions.

Do you think there is any link to the fact that those clubs (in the main )are in a district that cannot find a volunteer to be a councillor?   Yes if this is the case then there probably is a correlation so my question would be why can't they find a volunteer? Is it because there is precious little support (other than the aforementioned financial one) from the MYA  or perhaps the support is there but the MYA is not getting this across to potential volunteers? Perhaps the lag time of 6 months between the actual notice being given by a volunteer Councillor and the re-advertising of the post might have something to do with it. Perhaps using communication systems such as bulk email accounts designed for their simplicity rather than with all the technical bells and whistles would enable those who do volunteer not to feel completely out of their depth straight away.

Quote

Is it the council’s role to keep people in the sport?  Just the use of the word sport here suggests a narrowing of the MYA's role, given that the large majority of it's membership do not see their participation in Model Yachting as a sport but more a hobby, something to do in retirement a bit like golf (except of course with golf you can play on your own). If as a governance the MYA  swims against the tide supporting and promoting what for most is a hobby solely as a sport then I don't see it as likely there won't be a swell of numbers and the MYA council will, I think, continue to be considered an irrelevance to the majority of it's members, something we have to belong to in order to participate. This doesn't mean that the MYA shouldn't continue promoting the sport element it's whether you consider a change of emphasis is needed.

Would a central source of information keep them keen?

Would a district source of information keep them keen?

Would regular race reports keep them keen?

etc etc etc (all of the following questions appear to be you banging the drum for all the things you do) and nobody says those things aren't appreciated, however 

I presume here that you are suggesting that you already provide these in the form of the MYA website, support of the District websites and the emailing of Race reports to those who subscribe, although here I feel our approach would differ. My starting point would try to  be more inclusive in that having joined the MYA and participating in the hobby/sport, I would want to hear all of the relevant information regarding the classes I have chosen to participate in, so instead of pleading with people to sign up to the updates, why not sign up everyone and give them the option of unsubscribing, however you would then have to put in place a system whereby you send only the relevant information for the classes sailed, whether this is by paying for a multi user bulk email provider and giving access to class captains or distributing the contact information to those class captains and providing support in a bulk email use, otherwise the effort you put into the websites etc. is largely only going to be seen by those of us keen enough to go and look for ourselves

In my club from time to time we have run informal teaching days for our skippers, concentrating largely on the start, the upwind mark rounding, the downwind rounding and final leg, the emphasis for all these days has been about how to approach each of these elements by using the rules to your advantage, a written framework along these lines of specific relevance to radio sailing produced and revised after each rule change period. If it could be made to be used as a teaching framework I think it would be of immense benefit across all the levels of Model Yachting having the ability to reach a wider cross section of participants giving them the tools to improve their race techniques and perhaps enabling them to get more out of their participation and thereby making them more inclined to stay.  

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Why should the fee not be £14.00?

Please put a value on how much you consider the elements that the MYA provides are worth-ignore that we currently have a surplus.

Let me start,

How much would you pay to advertise a boat for sale on a dedicated central sport specific site? 50p, £1.00, £5.00 what do eBay charge?

Lets start with this, before we look at how much other items are worth.

It seems odd to me that you are even asking me to put a value on the elements that make up the MYA Fee, surely you understand that it is the role of council to budget appropriately on behalf of members, if by asking this question you are saying that you are clueless as to what actual elements are costing, then I refer you to the attached spreadsheet for the years 2011 to 2018.

Given that E bay appears to have a far wider catchment of Model Yachters than the MYA's Forum then the comparison of charges seems to me to be largely irrelevant.

Is there not a benefit for advertising boats internally to keep them amongst members who are likely to sail them in competition that outweighs the MYA charging for the service, however I would think that advertising on E bay, given the far superior numbers using the site, is likely to provide an owner with a better return.

 

 

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Yet again you cherry pick individual words or phrases to suit your argument. I resisted the temptation to respond to your earlier post yesterday but your continued misrepresentations today are becoming boring and offensive.

You pick on the word "sport" as used by Darin and insinuate that this is a problem. What sort of twisted mentality can not look at what we do and not see the boats sailing? Sailing is a global sport, represented in the Olympic Games for over a hundred years, and, incidentally, one at which GBR excel. I am proud to have been part of the sport for over 60 years and the efforts of this council and its volunteers has resulted in our branch of the sport being formally recognised by Sport England what more of an endorsement do you need? You even imply that golf is a hobby and not a sport, I am sure that Rory McKilroy and a few million others would disagree.

You want council to do more to retain members as opposed to promoting the sport to new members and yet the simple fact is that all organisations have a natural turnover of members for a variety of reasons and the upfront promotion of the sport is vital to keep new blood coming in and this is why it is the no 1 aim of the MYA as stated at the very beginning of our constitution, a constitution to which I believe the likes of yourself, Chris Durrant, Roger Stollery etc had a hand in writing. Nowhere does that same constitution mention retention of members and for a very good reason. Retention of members is a very individual thing and once someone joins one of our clubs their early experiences are entirely done to that club and its members, if they stay or if they go has  nothing to do with an annual affiliation of £14 or £10 it is all about their experiences with fellow club members. Maybe they just get fed up with the constant arguing and bickering at the pond side that we hear about. In my own clubs we have only lost members in the last three years for reasons of illness but then at the pond side we have great camaraderie and excellent support for each other. Member retention is important but the prime responsibility for this is at the grass roots of our sport - our clubs and its members , you and me.

You suggest following your example of informal teaching days (seminars ?).  A great idea and one which the MYA trialled in 2018 for race team training with a good degree of success but in 2019 when this was continued the response was so low that the events had to be cancelled. It is being taken up by some districts and is probably better held at this, more local, level and many clubs run their own training and coaching. There is no need for the MYA to be acting as "Big Brother" in this area, the framework exists and if funding is needed to assist with training then the district budgets are there to help.

You quote a lag time of 6 months between a DC giving notice and the position being advertised. Why is this an issue for the council? a DC is appointed by the District Committee and sits on council on their behalf. The council do not select, appoint, or dismiss the DC's this is entirely an issue for the district and its clubs. If the usual DC is, for whatever reason, unable to attend a meeting then the district council are encouraged to send an alternative representative.

 

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I left this thread alone for a while largely because the only response it initiated from members of the MYA Council was personal attacks, largely ignoring points raised.  Your first paragraph once again deliberately misses the point, largely the people who play golf are not Rory McKilroy  they are like our the majority of members who go out and play a round for the enjoyment of it, but of course it once again gives you a convenient way to attack the messenger.

I did not say that I wanted the MYA to do more to retain members as "opposed to promoting the sport to new members" I suggested that if you want to grow the "sport" then you need to put a similar effort into retaining members as you are to gaining them in the first place, you seem to have interpreted the constitution statement "To encourage and promote model yachting in all its branches and to act as the national body for the organisation of the sport." as referring only to promotion externally which of course it does not say it does say "encourage" which I interpret to include internally to existing members, clearly your interpretation is somewhat different, once again you pick only the parts of a constitution clause which suit you. 

Not seminars with death by power point attended by only the very enthusiastic but theory sessions prior to going on the water discussing how to position your boat to advantage yourself for the start etc  and then practical run throughs with discussions afterward as to what we might have done to improve our situation. Could you direct me to the MYA framework "teaching notes" for this kind of session?

Would you like to suggest how a district that has had it's club contact details stripped from the previous councillor and then the replacement isn't given any help in accessing the clubs is supposed to advertise his own position?  It is the MYA that has organised itself into districts and so ultimately if the MYA wants this to continue then more effort is required than here is a lump of funds go sort yourselves out which is what you seem to be suggesting is the current position. 

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1 hour ago, Peter Shepherd said:

Would you like to suggest how a district that has had it's club contact details stripped from the previous councillor and then the replacement isn't given any help in accessing the clubs is supposed to advertise his own position? 

Can you explain what you mean by this please as I don't understand what your trying to say?

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