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Proposed Constitution

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Darin

I think you may have had a bigger uproar on your hands had you not published the Appendices, as Document 1 would have appeared very flimsy indeed, I am sure that greater minds than mine with more experience in these matters have pointed you in the right direction. Does this mean you will be postponing the vote to allow time for all these points of view to be collated?

With the confusion as to what the membership of the MYA will actually mean in the future and it being difficult to ask my club members to join something which at present it is so difficult to understand what the nature of it will be, what is the current grace period for the return of membership fees?

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53 minutes ago, Peter Shepherd said:

Darin

I think you may have had a bigger uproar on your hands had you not published the Appendices, as Document 1 would have appeared very flimsy indeed, I am sure that greater minds than mine with more experience in these matters have pointed you in the right direction. Does this mean you will be postponing the vote to allow time for all these points of view to be collated?

With the confusion as to what the membership of the MYA will actually mean in the future and it being difficult to ask my club members to join something which at present it is so difficult to understand what the nature of it will be, what is the current grace period for the return of membership fees?

They are joining what the MYA has always been, an Association of clubs - and thats not going to change with this proposal, so no different to the previous 100+ years.

 

 

 

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Following on from Darins post I would add that there is no "Grace" period as is commonly assumed. Membership returns are due on Jan 1st. After 31st January membership privileges may be removed. If you wish to call this a "Grace" period then so be it but waiting till the end of January, or beyond, simply delays the issuing of the year book which only goes out to paid up members. None of this is ideal and I am not aware of a system that would suit everyone but it is what it is and many things are focused on January 1st making it a very busy time for the administrators. One idea that has been put forward by several member clubs is to move the AGM to give more time for the clubs to collect the fees once they know what those fees are. This is an idea that council consider worth exploring and is why in the proposed constitution the AGM date would not be fixed as rigidly as it is  now although other factors such as accounting dates, summer holiday period, etc come into play so that the scope for moving the AGM is still somewhat limited. It is also fair to say that whatever date the AGM is held on needs to be in the calendar at the beginning of the year (at the latest) in order that all arrangements can be made.

More discussion............

I would not normally pre-empt our DCO but he is out of the office until later today so I am putting up the attached file which will be on the main news section of the website later today.

EGM 10.1.docx

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Phil

Not sure what happened, message in the attachment hasn't appeared, the deadline for the 13th seems awful tight.

I only asked about grace periods because I and my members have already been removed from the membership area access so I am no longer able to view the proposed constitution presumably we aren't receiving emails from the MYA also, are we being victimised for taking an active role?

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2 hours ago, Peter Shepherd said:

Phil

Not sure what happened, message in the attachment hasn't appeared, the deadline for the 13th seems awful tight.

I only asked about grace periods because I and my members have already been removed from the membership area access so I am no longer able to view the proposed constitution presumably we aren't receiving emails from the MYA also, are we being victimised for taking an active role?

Interesting question about the mail chimp, and not sure how it is updated now, but announcements should be posted on the website as well.

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It is good that Council have accepted that there are problems with the proposed Constitution and that they have postponed presenting it to the membership but, in my view, by setting a date for completing a rewrite by the end of February they have not allowed anything like enough time for this to happen and I can predict that we will arrive at the same situation as now when the date for an EGM is set for early May.

Again I ask why the rush?

From the response from this forum and also from other sources it is clear that the difficulties with the proposed Constitution are not going to be solved by tinkering around the edges but require a "back to the drawing board" approach. It has taken Council 2 years to get to where we are now so it is unreasonable to expect that a fairly major rewrite could be achieved in the few weeks that have been allowed.

We know that the Marblehead/10Rater World Championships have no bearing on this matter so a programme that would allow sufficient time for this to happen would be sensible and I would suggest that aiming to put it before the membership for their consideration at the AGM at the end of the year would be more realistic.

David Munro

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Once again the Council is in a rush and it is not clear why, just a few days to reply to a major change in the Councils stance on the constitution EGM is  hardly fair to the membership. Also going for an EGM for ratification is a take it or leave it attitude the 2020 AGM would allow more time and also give the Clubs /Members an opportunity to comment.  The work to date by the council on the Constitution provides a reasonable document that requires polishing . Robert Hobbs

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2 hours ago, Robert Hobbs said:

Once again the Council is in a rush and it is not clear why, just a few days to reply to a major change in the Councils stance on the constitution EGM is  hardly fair to the membership. Also going for an EGM for ratification is a take it or leave it attitude the 2020 AGM would allow more time and also give the Clubs /Members an opportunity to comment.  The work to date by the council on the Constitution provides a reasonable document that requires polishing . Robert Hobbs

I hardly think that something approaching six months for the membership to consider the wording of the document can be considered a rush. Phase 1 is now over and comments have been made ,phase 2 the review and polishing is now about to start with over a month before reporting recommendations back to Council. There will then be nearly 2 months before an EGM. More than enough time and certainly not “a few days “ as you infer.

1) how long does it take to read, digest, and comment on 8 pages? - many people read a whole book in a matter of days.

2)who says the EGM is a “take it or leave it” situation? No agenda has been set as yet.

Wait till you have some facts before making such statements 

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Hi Phil/Darin
To say that I am disappointed would be a gross understatement, 
there has been no meaningful response to my last post. The last 
input to the thread is somewhat nonsensical and, if I were Robert 
Hobbs I would feel offended. 
Yet again I ask WHY THE RUSH? It has been accepted that a fairly 
major rewrite is needed. The appendices have to be considered at 
the same time as important areas of the constitution have been 
removed from the main body and transferred to these appendices.
In view of the 2 years it has taken Council to “finish” phase 1 it is 
ridiculous to expect to complete phase 2 for a vote from the 
membership by early May
David Munro

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6 hours ago, warehamdave said:

Hi Phil/Darin
To say that I am disappointed would be a gross understatement, 
there has been no meaningful response to my last post. The last 
input to the thread is somewhat nonsensical and, if I were Robert 
Hobbs I would feel offended. 
Yet again I ask WHY THE RUSH? It has been accepted that a fairly 
major rewrite is needed. The appendices have to be considered at 
the same time as important areas of the constitution have been 
removed from the main body and transferred to these appendices.
In view of the 2 years it has taken Council to “finish” phase 1 it is 
ridiculous to expect to complete phase 2 for a vote from the 
membership by early May
David Munro

Hi David,

I am not sure that I agree with it being a rush, but as there is a review to take place which will have new faces on it, this may lead to an altered course and further review. My concerns with not setting a tight(ish) timescale is that this would just meander and lose the interest of all. If we at this stage assume that the documents are going in the right direction then amendments should not be too difficult and a reasoned explanation of the proposals issued in a timely manner.

If the review finds something different then all timescales will need to be reviewed.

With regard to the appendices, and the removal of key parts of the main body into these, I feel that there are only 3 elements that we have altered significantly (definitions and wording excepted- I know these are important but the intent behind these is not changed and the review will take in to account comments received)

1. The council view is that a club with 6 affiliated members is a better starting point than having 2 affiliated members. This is a policy item and open to opinion, but ultimately the council feel that 6 is a better number which could be varied in the future, so should be a management item and should not be fixed in the constitution.

2. The Council feels that the need for an annual motion on the Affiliation fee is unneccessary, and if the fee only requires a small increase to accommodate inflation then the council should be able to set this at a date prior to the AGM. The council is regularly asked by member clubs what the fee will be prior to the AGM so that they can collect this and submit to the MYA prior to 31st Dec. The current policy of setting this at the AGM only gives a limited time to do this. By using the CPI figure at say 31st Sept the membership will know the maximum figure that it will be unless a club or the council put in a motion to increase above this, or decrease for exceptional reasons.

3. Time of the AGM: Although there will still only be a small practical window due to other timings, the current date gives no flexibility to council to assist itself, or the members. The change to the affiliation fee above would help, but giving flexibility on the exact timings would be better. In particular, given modern communication methods, having an AGM which from a council administration point starts in July, and goes on until the end of Nov is not desirable. It is correct that the membership has the chance to participate in the AGM so time has to be given for comment etc and maybe this needs to be reviewed but 4 months for an association the size of the MYA seems excessive. 

To me these are the only significant changes, others are subjective and could be argued by either side of a discussion, but the overall aim is to produce a simplified constitution (Doc 1) which allows the council to operate and does not require changing due to a future council and their policies on how the MYA should function.

Darin

 

 

 

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As it's gone very quiet on the constitution changes, I was wondering where Council is now? Especially given the original quick timetable quoted by Council. 

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7 hours ago, Damian101 said:

As it's gone very quiet on the constitution changes, I was wondering where Council is now? Especially given the original quick timetable quoted by Council. 

Hi Damian,

Below is taken from the minutes of our Council meeting 25th Jan. The review is underway.

Quote

Phil Holliday is to chair a committee to review and address the feedback received after the publication of the December Revised Constitution.

  • The committee is to consist of Mike Ewart, Peter Stollery, Lester Gilbert, Chris Durant, John Owens. Jen Hand to assist with administration.
  • A short report is to be prepared with The Starting Position and Objectives. At this stage the Appendices will not be reviewed.
  • The Constitution will be completed in “blocks”, with the chance to vote on each “block” at the future EGM.
  • The review is to be completed by the end of February 2020, and it is hoped to hold the EGM in May 2020.

 

 

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Thanks Ausin, for the update, much appreciated.

Hopefully with this group of experienced members we should be able to move forward.

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