Jump to content
Erick Brunswick

Looking for a Competitive IOM

Recommended Posts

Hi Fellas,

I am Looking for a Competitive IOM. I will spend what is needed but I really do not want to hang about for 12 months waiting for it to arrive and I really do not want an old Widget , Gadget, Lintel or Isis. i.e. nothing on the MYA for sale billboard seem exciting but I could be wrong.

Has anybody go any ideas I would love to hear them

or

If you have a Competitive boat, preferably located in the UK or Europe, you would like to offer me then please e-mail me rather than make a posting on the site.

erick.brunswick@gmail.com

I look forward to hearing from someone.

Erick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Erick,


Not sure of your current experience and anticipated competition level, but do not exclude some of the last generation designs just because they are not flavour of the month.


Some of the designs you mention can still hold there own in the fleets, particularly against some of the "copies" of the top designs.


Perhaps a little more info on your intended use of the boats may help?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Darin,

I must confess that I have been overwhelmed by the kind and most helpful responses I have received via the e-mail and I must thank all of you for that.


It was interesting to note that two notable UK suppliers / builders of top 10 IOM boats contacted by E-mail have not as yet replied after 4 days but the Brazilian and Spanish supplier of the same design responded in 4 hours.


May I respond to your comment regarding designs Darin rather by asking a question - Which one of the designs I listed can hold its own in today’s IOM fleet or is it now Britpop Fleet with some IOM boat sailing with them in the UK?


A revers Dragon Force situation.


Which one of the listed designs would you choose and which have you chosen?

Silly question, I now know what you sail because I looked at the recent ranking race results from Datchet.


Intended use is a good question, Sail at:-

Club – in the top end of the fleet

Regional level – in the top middle of the fleet

Nation Level – in the bottom middle of the fleet


I will stop there for the time being - the World Championship is a little of a stretch for the next month or two I guess.


I have the money … well some money set aside.. enough to buy a competitive well designed and constructed boat to sail and not be out classed by equipment performance. I want me to be the cause of poor performance.


I really want a boat but I am not prepared to wait for 9 months for it; by that time I will have lost all interest or even have died of bordom or frustration.


..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Erick,


As we have exchanged emails with regards to your search, I felt it might be useful to share my response for anyone else looking to enter into top line competitive racing within the sport. I will also make clear that my response was copied also to our UK builder who I am sure will be in contact with you when they return to the workshop.


With regards to starting out new, the below may assist your decision making:


I would use an analogy of myself wanting to get back into dinghy/skiff sailing with either a Moth or Musto skiff. Honestly I think I could pick it all back up within 12-18 months and a lot of sailing but the reality is that i would do a lot of swimming, make a lot of basic errors and probably damage some kit before I became confident enough to say I was sailing anything near its capabilities.

Now of course the damage aspect is reduced with radio sailing somewhat, but the mistake factor and learning curve can be one that takes a while to get the best from your equipment. Simple things such as handling light mylar sails when changing a rig quickly, ensuring electrics and gear are well maintained etc means that with anyone naturally, a few basics take a little time.

I would always recommend a decent 2nd hand boat first up with a view that if sailed to its potential you will beat a not so well sailed new design. Once you are confident you will know when the step up is required, having not spoilt any of your brand new kit on pit falls.


Whilst it is always nice to have new and shiny, im afraid that in our sport this is very rarely, if ever, a direct route to the top for anyone. Those at the top of our game are essentially the ones who have done their 'Apprenticeship' with older designs, starting at the bottom and working their way up. There can be the odd exception where a natural talent may skip a few rungs of the ladder but these are rare. Having the notion of nothing to blame is nice, but it can go both ways and in many examples often works to the sports detriment. The skipper who doesn't see instant results, often without understanding or willing to understand why can leave our sport as quickly as he joins, most commonly seen in one design racing but happens in all forms. It is just far too easy to blame equipment rather than yourself.....


I did also pass on to you a list of designs that will hold you in any company if sailed well for the first 12 to 18months. Some perform better in specific conditions than others but that is all part of the learning curve. Racing such designs will give you a far better understanding of tuning, balance and sailability in all winds and be invaluable later in experience gained. They will all perform better than any newcomer will sail them over this time and will nearly always not be the reason you are not gaining early success. Dependent on anyone's level of dinghy or keelboat experience it will take anywhere from 2-5 years of commitment to gain consistent results (top 10) at the sharp end of a competitive (district/ranking) fleet. Some after 20+ years still struggle to consistently get there but they keep coming back for the challenge and the days they do get it right.


I would suggest spending the 9 months waiting for any new boat racing a quality second hand one as a novice would still leave anyone short on experience to get the best from the new boat for a good while. Don't sit idle as underestimating the time it takes to be truly good at any discipline often ends in failure.


If I can help further you have my email.


Cheers

Brad


PS. I decided to try and learn the guitar late last year. In looking at what to buy did I need the 'Fender' or 'Gibson' top line gear? As you have done, I asked some experienced friends who play in bands, took their advice and went for something far more suitable to a novice and I can safely say I know it is me when the thing doesn't sound right by sounding more like Brian Griffin than Brian May :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed you have Brad and for this I thank you together with Peter Wills and two others who did not wish to be thanked or perhaps associated with this post in public.


I will confess to being more than a little discouraged.


It seems that I will have to purchase it outside the UK since the UK manufactures are inundated with orders or only work a 1 day week and spend 6 days sailing, a good life balance but bad business. There is no cost advantage to either, simply one of expediency.


A boat like this is probably worth 30 to 40 man hours production time. So there are 49 weeks in a year so the annual production could be around 49 per year at £900 profit --£44k / year tax free a good income.

.



I do not believe a 3 to 6 month lead time is unreasonable but 18 months open ended is bordering on the ridiculous and there is seemingly no commitment to ever deliver the boat by the builder or could I get a firm price.


I did receive a number of E-mails warning me of this – and thank you.


Perhaps in the IOM world this is the norm but in my world it is the exception. This is not a Sistine Chapel Ceiling from a fellow called Michael and even then the Pope got fed-up with the scaffolding in his chapel after a few years and read the riot act.


I did make enquiries about a Vision which is high on the IOM leader board. But the builder referred me to his distributor. I did e-mail this distributer however he has not as yet replied after...

I was surprised that the builder did not simply answer my question and refer my mail to his distributor, as you kindly did Brad…… all a bit odd


But I will not be dissuaded from my quest of buying a competitive modern IOM yacht; new or used, call me crazy .. I have the money but not the time.

And I will not be buying a stopgap.


Oh yes…The guitar thing … You had the choice £50 to £1200 - I do not expect to be a good sailor but, I you think about it ..


1/ I am being asked to place an order with a delivery lead time of 18 months

2/ The Builder will only formally confirm/accept my order after 15 months ( 10 week before delivery)

3/ The Builder might not ever confirm the delivery leaving me hanging for 18 months


All this for something I may give up on in 6 months... or 12 months before the boat I ordered arrives. All because I have bought a Thingit that I had to buy new sails for , a winch, a radio, rudder, ruder servo, new mast , new fin, lead, 1 metres of string, can of paint.


If I simply buy a top boat then you cut all of this irritation out and I can always sell it..


I see some one is trying to give away an MX14 at half price. I e-mailed him .. it is nearly new. he assures me there is nothing wrong with the boat.. are you suggesting I buy the MX 14 or MX16... I am surly being driven to it.


..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Erick,


I think what is being said is not to go and buy something that is being sold as the next great thing at half price. Unfortunately the IOM boats that are built are all hand built by enthusiasts who happen to make a living from their passion. This will inevitably mean that supply is limited as many have other things to do to supplement their income or are working towards a work life balance that many of us as customers envy:)


The MX range of boats are a larger companies attempt to rectify the situation that you are experiencing, but it has not worked for the top level guys, the boats are not competitive enough and have been tried and discarded. Good boats but not going to win you a National Championship (or potentially beat an older boat built in a garage on the The Wirral)


Of more importance though for you is surely how you can get yourself involved in the Sport at a level where you feel comfortable, and this is where the advice given by Brad is sound. Before the 2011 WC's the boat to have was a Widget or Lintel, prior to this we have had Topico's, Pikanto's etc, none of these are bad boats and there are good examples available which will be great boats, giving you wins and enjoyment until a BP/ Vision/ V9 arrives.


Get yourself a nice boat, join us on the water (and bar) and dont worry that you havent got the latest design just yet.


Come on, you know you want to.... 8-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brad and Darin jointly make the point that novice's rarely win anything even with a BritPop until they have mastered the art of Radio Sailing. So why wait, buy any of the currently un-favored boat and get that experience of losing before the winning comes.


If you have the money and really want to get a BP now, why not offer to buy one from the person at the top of the waiting list. That's what happens when the new Ferrari's come out and people really want one ASAP. Just be prepared to pay over the odds and don't expect to win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Darin

You are quit correct.. I do want to and I will.


Which boat you would recommend/buy?


• UK Britpop

• Brazilian Britpop

• Spanish Britpop

• Copy Britpop


I will not be spending money on a Stopgap, Widget, Lintel, Gadget, Flopit, Mopsey or Cotton Tail. I have done this before with other pastimes / hobbies and it is a total waste of money and effort unless you are happy with mediocrity.


Again thank you for your advice it is really appreciated.


Ericka

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Erick Have you seen this on the MYA for sale page??

"Carlo Malara says : September 21, 2015 at 6:11 pm

Britpop sell like new , light blue Vinaxia production , complete with electronics and Rig . 1/2/3 . used only 3 times .

Private negotiation email

malara.carlo@libero.it"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rob,

No I must confess I had missed that particular post.It is somehow lost in the lendless list of boat that have been sold.


But ..thank you for bringing it to my attention. I have found it and sent of an E-mail to him to try and get a price. I do hate ' Private negotiation email ' for what ever this may mean. Why he could not simply list the price he wanted so I could transfer the funds I will never know.


Light Blue is ok I guess - better than pink or purple.


Vinaxia Yachts is the Spanish producer. His deliver was OK and the price was perfectly aceptable - lets see how much Carlo is asking ..


Again my thanks Ericka


Getting closser to the water - next a club !

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Erik,

For the benefit of others pondering this question, I consider the advice of Brad and Darin to be sound and the comment regarding Widget, Lintel and Gadget to be rather insulting.

Well sailed, these and many other boats will perform well at club and district levels, occasional Widgets and Lintels still appear in National and World listings and can hardly be considered mediocre. Britpops' appear at the bottom as well as the top of the results tables, spending thousands on the latest tech doesn't guarantee success and a great deal of fun can be had for much less.

I personally couldn't justify the cost of latest models or the wait for delivery, my Widget has been replaced with a home build, pretty sure it's faster but then perhaps I have just become a better sailor. So for anyone considering IOM Radio Sailing don't be put off by thinking it's necessary to break the bank to be competitive, where we all start, at club level, you just need to get sailing and start learning. Look at past results, choose something that had good results on your type of water, make sure it's reliable, has decent foils and sails, get plenty of practice and have fun.

Good sailing,

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John,


I am sorry that you found my comments as a complete outsider regarding a Flopsy Mopsy and Cottontail insulting. Clearly a boat which has been well built, rigged with good sails in the hands of a good sailor will be to some degree competitive. However most are not.


I have been cautioned about some of the boats that were originally offered as kits and have been very poorly home assembled. There are many Lintels, Frigits, Spirit etc. that fall into this category; live next door but one to a fanatical radio sailor and he has shown me some rather good examples of this.


I do not have sufficient experience to differentiate and so I must stay clear of them. Similarly there are designs that seem to have arrived with great bluster and disappeared just as quickly, Squiggle, Shadow, Sloth, Robot, Erika, being an examples; probably good boats but .


Besides which I have the money but not the time remaining on this earth and I want to spend that time that might remain at this my last hurrah.


Regarding a boat only being as good as the skipper, this is indeed true. Dare I repeat what was told me by my neighbour - a plank of wood with one end pointed and the other blunt sailed backwards by Brad Gibson or Peter Stollery will beat the pants off most.


I came to the National meeting in Linclon one one of the mornings.. Brad had a bad satart ... picked up weed... sailed to the jetty, rejoined the race a full lenght of the course behind ... then finished was it 5th. - remarkable. Now do that with Flopsy Mopsy or Cottontail.


I did make it quite clear from the very beginning that I did NOT want to start off with an uncompetitive boat or indeed an old design. This may suit you and many other but it does NOT suit me and clearly does NOT suit the 30 or so skippers that attended the Ranking Event in Datchet… I did look at the results.


And whilst I thank you for your undoutedly sound advice, it does not suit me for the reasons I have stated. Your comment shows that you are not sensitive to MY wishes and I resent being scolded by you for not wanting to buy Flopsy Mopsy or Cottontail.


I watch the MYA For Sale and noted that:-


* The V9 was sold in 5 minutes at £2200 the hull cost £1300 Ex NZ. So after a year of sailing his outlay was almost £0.


* The Britpop is now sold at £1600, the hull cost £1300 ex UK. So after 3 years of sailing his outlay was £300. Lest than £5/week if he only sailed on Sunday. I spend more on face cream.


* The MX14 cost £650 + £450 equipping it, say £1100. 6 months later you cannot give it away. Net loss £1100 - £44/ week assuming he sailed it every Sunday.


Does this tell you anything?


Ericka

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No problem Erika. Good luck with the negotiations..


Darin,

Do you know if we plan to tidy up the 'for sale' list? there are a lot of 'please remove this listing' notes at the top of the list..

Also maybe it would be smarter to list the latest posts at the top, not the bottom of the list??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or may be just have a proper classified section in this forum. So original lister could delete themselves once sold ?


might also increase traffic for whole forum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry Erick,

I did not mean to sound Scolding, you had clearly stated you did not want an older boat. As stated, my comments were intended for others pondering this question. Britpops and V9's do retain their value, there are long waiting lists and they are at the top of the game, One can only guess at what may happen if someone further down the rankings turned up with a pointed plank and started winning everything. If you haven't found anything yet perhaps placing a Britpop or V9 wanted Ad on as many websites as you can find may get a result, as has already been stated, there may be someone prepared to sell their place in the queue.

Good Luck and Good Sailing,

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Darin,

Few comments about the " For Sale" section, how about Sellers being able to delete their own Ads and/or no replies being allowed. If as requested, the seller provides contact details surely any questions can be dealt with directly. Still need some management to tidy up forgotten posts, personal preference would be to see the latest Ads at the top.

regards,

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to dig up an old thread, however I stumbled across this whist looking for a IOM for sale for me to get into the sport. (That’s what my local club sail)


I’d just like to know:


Did Eric ever buy a boat?

What boat did Eric buy?

Did Eric ever win anything with his “all the gear, no idea” mantra? Haha.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mr Cohen,

Do I detect a note of contempt of my view with respect to buying an IOM in your post “all the gear, no idea” mantra? Haha"


But to answer you I did buy and do have a V9.

It is very easy to sail and I do ok but sadly I don't get all that much opportunity to sail it at the moment with the pressure of work taking precedence.


I clearly have long learning curve ahead but at least the boast sails in a straight line, has good sails and very good gear and I am

GETTING THE IDEA thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OR …. while you are waiting for a top level IOM, buy yourself a DF95 and you will be on a par with all other DF95 sailors, where you can learn the ins and outs of this hobby :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mr Cohen,

Do I detect a note of contempt of my view with respect to buying an IOM in your post “all the gear, no idea” mantra? Haha"


But to answer you I did buy and do have a V9.

It is very easy to sail and I do ok but sadly I don't get all that much opportunity to sail it at the moment with the pressure of work taking precedence.


I clearly have long learning curve ahead but at least the boast sails in a straight line, has good sails and very good gear and I am

GETTING THE IDEA thank you

 

Was totally “tongue in cheek” mate and I’m glad you took it as so. I too have just started out in the world of RC yacht sailing. Glad you got a boat and are enjoying when you get the time. 🙂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your comment was by no means "Tongue in Cheek" or humorous. It showed contempt and was demeaning. Your intent was clearly to be hurtful and I took it as such.

You clearly do not understand what "Tongue in Cheek" means

By the date of my post you may deduce that I am by no means Just Starting Out 

I am by no means your Mate and most unlikely to ever be. Do not wave me away with this empty response implying that it is I who have wronged you or do not understand English, 
Rather say you are sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Well clearly you do have the wrong end of the stick, however in that case please forgive me, that was never my intention to cause upset. 

My apologies sir, good sailing to you 

Edited by frayz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...