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PeterC

Model Yacht Insurance

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I want to insure my new IOM but can't find a suitable policy.

How do members insure their Model Yachts?

Does the MYA Public Liability provide any cover eg damage caused by collision?

Are there Insurance Brokers that offer Model Yacht Insurance

Dinghy Insurance Brokers eg Noble Marine, don't offer policies

Home Insurance policies offer some cover but have limits on value and use eg are model yachts 'Sports Equipment' or 'Water Craft'

There should be a market for model yacht insurance, has the MYA discussed it with Brokers?

One possible benefit brokers eg Noble Marine, pay commission to Dinghy Classes which is used to sponsor events eg Nationals

I can't find any advice elsewhere on the site

Peter Cogill


Peter Cogill

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I understand:-

The MYA group policy is Public liability insurance. It provides coverage in the event of a member of the Public suffers loss or injury as a result of the Insured’s activity. It covers costs like medical, legal bills i.e. concomitant damages suffered arising from an accident / mistake on the part of the Insured.

Competitors are by definition are NOT the Public.

So damage or loss to equipment used by a Competitor is NOT covered.

This was tested some years ago when a Competitor’s boat was run over another by a Car. Bill Smith can probably elaborate on this

What has not been tested, I understand, is if an action / claim can be brought by a Competitor against a Club hosing an Event for damages sustained for example falling off an unsafe platform.

The key, one believes, is the phrase Jointly and Severally in the definition of the Policy Holder. The fundamental being you cannot bring a suit against yourself.

My house hold policy covers my boat but it must be specifically listed / declared on the policy. It is classed as a TOY. just as if it were a bicycled, camera etc. Forget boat insurance, it is NOT a boat, you have an expensive TOY

I have a limitation on the policy in order to reduce the cost of the coverage –

Excluded - Loss in use i.e. the boat is NOT covered when sailing.

Included - Theft, provide there is forcible entry to home or car and

Included - Damage in transit.

Phone your Insurance Company – Let us know how you got on …

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Thanks Erick

I contacted Halifax Insurance, my Contents only covers for Theft away from home, not covered in use.

I did find a specialist Model insurance Broker (Highworth, I think) who quoted ~ £75.


Peter Cogill

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One believes that:- 113 read

You can insure anything for any risk. What one has to consider is where the risk actually lies and the degree of that risk.

The incidence of total loss of Radio Controlled Yacht is so low as to pose a non- existent risk. The greater risk is partial damage i.e. damage to sails, winch and rigs.

An INSURER will not however be able to determine this and deem the risk of a claim to be high and load the premium accordingly.

One of the difficulties an INSURER has is that the majority of our yachts are not produced by RECOGNISABLE Manufacturers and as such have no definable / verifiable replacement value.

We should not welcome an era of All Risk Insurance in RADIO CONTROLLED SAILING particularly whilst RACING because the INSURER will certainly take CIVIL ACTION against any COMPETITOR involved in an incident resulting in a CLAIM by the INSURED in order to recover their loss, both direct and consequential.

This will inevitably result in Protest Committees, Clubs, Race Officers and the MYA becoming dragged into CIVIL DAMAGE ACTIONS in order to determine liability.

The MYA and Clubs seemingly are oblivious to the changing circumstances i.e. the cost of Radio Yachts souring beyond all proportion in some classes and have not amended the SSI , Notice of Race, Race Entry and other documents in such a way that would indemnify THEMSELVES and COMPETITORS against CIVIL ACTION in the event of loss or damage to craft whilst competing in an event.

The value of the boat being transported is in some cases greater that the value of the car transporting it.

Just this weekend I was told of an incident where the crew of the rescue boat damaged a boat it was rescuing by alleged careless handling causing the loss of a complete rig valued at £250.

Something simple devoid of medieval Latin phrases like Mutatis Mutandis:-

In entering this event the COMPETITOR understands and accepts that his craft may suffer damage or loss and competes at his/ her own risk and forgoes any rights at law to ….

This type of clause is standard in all forms of Motor Racing

It could be held that the risk of damage to a Full Size Yacht is far less than a Radio Controlled Yacht simply because the skipper of a Radio Controlled Yacht is not on-board the craft and consequently has no risk of PERSONAL INJURY moderating his decisions in term of course, speed and sailing conditions.

An example of this was a West Kirby IOM Ranking Event – the Full Size boats did not put to water because of the conditions but the Radio Yachts did.

Consider the insurance cover carefully and identify the circumstances under which you might want to claim before buying cover you might not be able to effective claim against. The word RACING will scare any INSURER but do not forget to state this in your description of usage.

Close Racing has its inherent risks which you must fully accept irrespective of who is on port tack, has water at the mark or is leeward.

One believes.

...

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WOW!!!! Where is this going to lead??

We may return to the days of only 10 boats per heat & no one will be willing to man safety boats for fear of damaging rigs etc.

Be careful what you wish for!

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Derek 160

I believe:-

I stated that we should NOT look forward or welcome an era of Radio Control Boat insurance. I should have added " Encourage or facilitate"

We should NOT look forward to , welcome, encourage or facilitate an era of Radio Control Boat insurance.

The MYA, as controlling body, should however indemnify themselves and competitors against civil claims by the inclusion of a simple indemnity statement into the SSI , Notice of race and the entry system. Similarly EVERY CLUB SHOULD make this a condition of membership.

Some may believe that the DESISION to RACE clause in the RRS will do this for them but ...this is far from sufficient and would not be deemed as an indemnity.

Imagine if British Touring Cars were comprehensively insured... the chaos of stopping the race and collecting statements, measuring skid marks every time there was a shunt. Claims for whiplash and so on.

Personally, I would not knowingly compete in the same race as an Insured Boat and insured boats should be required to fly the Q flag ion their starboard shroud.

I would NOT believe any Insurance Company would provide collision damage insurance to Radio Controlled toy boats whilst racing...

Be careful of what you wish for... Derek it takes but one

Do you remember Christmas ... I do ... that is James the Boom and the battle of Potternek.

nmn

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my view as a newcomer. I am sure that the people already individually insured for loss are able to insure at a low price because 1 . Few people means few claims and 2 . By being careful and insuring I suspect they are careful in all areas and less likely to claim

make this a general act and I thnk there will be more willing to sail in marginal conditions and perhaps less care in racing.

is the next step to have rc yacht claim telephone cold callers along with the accident and bank miss selling calls?

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From a racing rules point of view:

- the standard World Sailing wording is 'Each participating boat shall be insured with valid third party liability insurance with a minimum cover of __________________ per incident or the equivalent.

There is usually a reasonable excess on most policies - €500 would be common in Europe. This means that in most circumstances a competitor who damages another boat will have to 'do the decent thing' and make good any damage. However, if you, on port, collide with and sink a brand new all carbon racing machine sailing on starboard the policy should cover this. This seems only reasonable when a new boat can represent several months take home pay.

- RYA prescriptions on rule 67 mean that the protest committee has no part to play in issues of liability of claim for damages. The protest committee merely decides whether a racing rule has been broken. Most countries have similar prescriptions.

- most disclaimers of liability have no effect whatsoever. Which is why the RYA recommends that the disclaimer is replaced by a Risk Statement (see page 115 of the current RYA rule book.This policy is slowly spreading world-wide.

Gordon

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Noble Marine Insurance http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/

I have my IOM insured on my House Policy but it is only covered for theft from home or total loss eg sinking. I am my about to renew my home policy, so thought I reinvestigate Model Yacht Insurance

I’ve insured my Streaker with that Noble Marine (in Newark) for many years; they are one of the major Insurance Brokers for sailing dinghies. I find that they offer a similar insurance policy for Model Yachts.

The policy has a £50 (or £100) excess and covers loss and damage including while racing, in a very comprehensive policy.

Knowing that at least one IOM was holed at the Fleetwood Nationals and the perpetrator paid for the repairs and delivery; maybe it is time that more of us considered insuring boats while racing.

Accidents can and do happen and the attitude of skippers does not change because their boat is insured. The Racing Rules state we must avoid collisions and we have the Race Committee at our events to apply them.

Claims can be made online and I’ve found that Noble Marine offer a very fast and positive response.

There could be benefits to us all if a Class body or the MYA acted as ‘agents’.

The Streaker Class have a website link to Noble Marine and members get a discount on their policy; in addition Noble have given ‘sponsorship’ to the Class which is used to sponsor the National Championships.


Peter Cogill

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Noble Marine Insurance http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/

I have my IOM insured on my House Policy but it is only covered for theft from home or total loss eg sinking. I am my about to renew my home policy, so thought I reinvestigate Model Yacht Insurance

I’ve insured my Streaker with that Noble Marine (in Newark) for many years; they are one of the major Insurance Brokers for sailing dinghies. I find that they offer a similar insurance policy for Model Yachts.

The policy has a £50 (or £100) excess and covers loss and damage including while racing, in a very comprehensive policy.

Knowing that at least one IOM was holed at the Fleetwood Nationals and the perpetrator paid for the repairs and delivery; maybe it is time that more of us considered insuring boats while racing.

Accidents can and do happen and the attitude of skippers does not change because their boat is insured. The Racing Rules state we must avoid collisions and we have the Race Committee at our events to apply them.

Claims can be made online and I’ve found that Noble Marine offer a very fast and positive response.

There could be benefits to us all if a Class body or the MYA acted as ‘agents’.

The Streaker Class have a website link to Noble Marine and members get a discount on their policy; in addition Noble have given ‘sponsorship’ to the Class which is used to sponsor the National Championships.

 

I come from dinghy sailing as well Peter. My impression is that there is a reduced effort to avoid collision in RC compared to " full size" sailing. My concern would be that an RC sailor with insurance is even more likely to be firing into the windward mark on tbe port layline!

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Replying to Igor Harlamov

One is not certain what your point is or indeed the point of your post is.

I most defiantly wrote/stated earlier 11.10.2016 that 'you can insure yourself against anything' BUT I did not state that you cannot insure yourself against deliberate and determined action of the part of the insured since this is really self evident.

From what I read :-

You clearly have or had a Contractual Issue with a Builder / Supplier of a Motor Yacht. You chose to make public inflammatory remarks in order to force a settlement.

This is ' deliberate and determined action of the part of the insured ' and in doing so your lay yourself open to Civil Libel Action regardless of the media chosen.

The Disclaimer contained in the Blog is irrelevant since you clearly wrote both the Post and the Disclaimer. The Disclaimer in this instance can only indemnify the Web-site not those who post on it, YOU.


Now you have a potentially expensive problem and it is probably too late to publish a retraction. By providing a link to this forum, blog you are clearly attempting to widen your audience still inflaming a volatile situation.


Protecting yourself against dispute arising from poor quality, patent or latent defect of a non-serial product manufacture on your behalf is simple if you follow some simple steps:-


1/ Investigate the supplier and inspect his premises beforehand and assure yourself he is who he is and does what he says he does

2/ Ensure the terms of Purchase / Sale are clear and acceptable to both parties before entering into Contract

3/ Ensure the Scope of Supply is clear and set-out in writing

4/ Ensure the standard to which the item or service must comply is clearly defined

5/ Inspect the goods before taking delivery or making any progress stage payments or setting the item into beneficial use

If a dispute arises

6/ Use a third-party Assessor / Surveyor to survey the craft and provide a written report

Its all too much trouble....

But I still wonder how this is related to Radio Controlled Yachts

Are you making a concerted effort to have any Civil Judgment go against you ?

I have several investment opportunities available for the discerning investor

a) a BRIDGE in Scotland

b) 450 k Hectare farm in Libya

c) Land Speed Record attempt car

.,.mmm..

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