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Erick Brunswick

Hold your Course

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Well compared to some of the other classes a competitive six is generally a lot cheaper, unfortunately they are a bit rare on the ground at the moment keep an eye on the Six Metre website


Mike Ewart

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The rules are clear - a hail of 'Hold your Course' from a port tack boat has no meaning under the Racing Rules of Sailing. The port tack boat must keep clear (RRS 10) and the starboard tack boat IF she changes course must give a keep clear boat room to keep clear (RRS 16.1).


Repeated hails that are meaningless or misleading are a clear breach of recognised principles of sportsmanship and fair play and breaks rule 2, Fair Play. Protest!


Gordon

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Another beautiful day two weeks ago and we , that is Doris and I, went to a different pond to watch the IOM boats sail in an open competition. These tend to be far more exciting and well worth the drive up the A##. Thanks to you fellows we now have a better idea of what is taking place.


And true to form the Hold you Course popped up from the same person we first encountered using this call some months ago but this time as a Post-incident CALL


1/ Boat A - Starboard -Tack running to the Mark about 20 metres away

2/ Boat B - Port-Tack beating away from the Mark.


3/ Boat B was on a collision course with Boat A ( or the converser )

4/ Boat A was sailing a reasonable course directly to the Mark


5/ Boat B, Port-Tack showed NOT inclination to avoid boat A, Starboard-Tack and


6/ When they had converged to about 2 metres between them Boat A swung to avoid what he clearly has determined to be an imminent collision.


7/ Boat B did not alter course at all during the whole sequence of events.


8/ Sadly and almost predictably they collided


the CALL from Boat B - Protest Boat A - You Altered Coarse.


Boat B even went as far as lodging a Protest convinced he was fully vindicated. We could not give evidence even though we were in the Control Area as we were not Racing.


I understand that in a magnanimous gesture Boat B withdrew his Protest - but was not penalised


Mmmmmmmm


We both thought - what a good tactic.

When in the wrong - Protest

Then in the spirit of Keeping thing going - Withdraw the Protest

The Race Officer is relieved had forgets that NO penalties were taken and the Incident goes Unresolved


Boat A was well put out of the Race and relegated to the next fleet.

Job done




.

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I noted a comment in this tread inferring that those sailing a 6 Metre were not prone to utilising such tactics and they were far more affable skippers.


Doris and I see the same faces appear at these Events sailing:-


DF65

DF94

6 Metre

IOM


And there is virtually no difference except for the speed and the ability to turn , tack and gybe.


Perhaps if the IOM Class was restricted to a 20mm wide rudder and half the sail area the approach might be similarly to a 6 metre

mnm



We are going to watch the 36" Nationals this coming Sunday. I understand the tea and cake is good there

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Well Mike, I’ve got myself a Romanza and I am doing my first club race this morning. We’ll see if the application of rules differs in any way! Looking forward to seeing you out there.

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I prefer to race rather than talking about it!! BUT for years I've said "Hold your course" to Starbord shouts to re assure the stbd boat that I've seen them & that I know ther're there AND that I intend to avoid them!!


Now, back to racing for me!!

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Hi Eric, not sure what kind of point you are trying to make here - just being facetious perhaps?


The rules are quite clear - and the hail of "hold your course" has no import.


The definition of Keep Clear says in part


Keep Clear A boat keeps clear of a right-of-way boat

(a) if the right-of-way boat can sail her course with no need to take

avoiding action and,


And RRS 10 says Port shall keep clear of Starboard.


So 90 can protest all she wants - but based on that photo, she will lose the protest.


John


John Ball

IOM CAN 307 (V8)

In my private capacity

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Hello Erick

Thank you for posting this, they do say a picture is worth a thousand words, but you really should have introduced yourself on Sunday, it would also have been lovely to meet Doris.

Coincidentally my good friend Dave was racing too, you could have taken the opportunity to say hello to him.

Kind regards

Laurie

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This discussion raises two questions in my mind, 1) the phrase "alters course" implies a conscious input from the skipper, should a gust induced lift be regarded as changing course? Without accurate observing from a third party this will always degenerate into an argument with no winner 2) at what point is the ROW boat too close to alter course whilst still giving room? Again this is a judgement call where both skippers involved will have their own (differing) opinion. The reality of the situation is that the give way boat has put himself in a very vulnerable position and is trying to use the nuances of the rules to get himself out! Moral of this story - talk to each other in plenty of time and if you are the give way vessel be prepared to tack or duck whilst you still have time.

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Ah Phil


Good to hear from you.


Morality aside this is Racing

Talk to one another !!

Well the orange boat on a Port Tack was me and the discussion taking place was interesting to say the least.


Ranging from

a) I was not on the water at the time of the incident

b) There was Radio Interference which made the boat go out of control

c) I was on Starboard

d) You changed course

e) 11 did not allow me to duck

f) I was just coming off of the bank


All of which was in jest and we really enjoyed the day sailing


Only one real protest . An interesting one form the point of view of total dis-information


Boat A Rounded Leeward Mark - jibing in the process to starboard - Starboard rounding .


Boat A was very closely followed by the evil boat 11 .


Boat B tacked onto Port immediately he had cleared the mark.


But the evil boat 11 had a tighter rounding because he came in wider.

Now about 50mm to weather of boat A the evil boat 11 is faced with Boat A now on Port and had only one option. Tack inside and became the leeward boat .


But happily Boat A protested the evil boat 11


a) Boat 11 Infringed upon Boat A by not allowing sufficient Room for A to TACK


The evil boat 11's skipper stated that he was unaware of any collision and was doing his level best to avoid any collisions.



So what do you think , was the Protest committee correct in disqualifying the evil boat 11

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Hi David,

I have tried to diagram your incident. I think your reference to boat B was really boat A. If not, then we need more info about the positioning of B.


Yellow is boat A, entitled to mark room,gybes to stbd to round the mark then once past the mark, tacks to port. (Note that Yellow's mark room under R 18.2.b ends as she was given room and had past the mark)

Green is the 'dreaded 11'. She gives mark room to Yellow, and follows Yellow around the mark, but on stbd, hardens up close to the mark, and inside Yellow. and is forced to tack to port to avoid Yellow when Yellow tacks in front of her.


Basically, this looks like Yellow breaks R 10 by tacking to port while Green is on stbd. Yellow is not entitled to any room to keep clear under R 15 as she tacked to port and caused the change in ROW by her own action.


Another possibility but I cannot tell from your description, but if Yellow was futher ahead and had completed her tack to port, and then Green on stbd altered course such that Yellow was not given room to keep clear, then Green would break R 16.1.


John

1130345446_leewardroundingtostbd.jpg.97727d85bd45efacef19ea57174d7d42.jpg


John Ball

IOM CAN 307 (V8)

In my private capacity

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John,

You have it in one with one minor correction, it is not the Dreaded 11 it is the Evil 11


And yes .. forgive the reference to Boat B , it should be Boat A


There was a boat B following about 2 boat lengths back and we will get onto that.


You seem to disagree with the findings of the Protest Committee in that you find Evil 11 did not breach any rule.


The issue as to if there was a contact or not is really going to determine if Boat A should be disqualified or not.

Again - should boat A be disqualified.



the rest of the story or to Quote To LOOK at the Bigger Picture


The points difference between Evil 11 and Boat B at this time is 4 points to Boat B.

If Evil 11 is disqualified this will extend Boat B lead to 16 points


If Boat A is disqualified then Boat B moves up 1 point to 5 ahead and Evil 11 is the looser


Boat A is not really in the hunt for an Event top 3 placing.


So having Boat A disqualified does not suit the Evil 11 hence the denial of any contact since he is very sure that he had not broken any rule and .... the hidden video head camera would show a mast contact.


But spurred on by Boat B, who has everything to gain and nothing to lose, Boat A sets forth with a Protest... one that he can only loose , unless Evil 11 saves Boat A from disqualification by denying the contact.


The Protest Committee dismissed the protest for lack of evidence of a contact. The outcome Evil 11 wanted

Evil 11 passed Boat A to take first place in the heat


It was a really good day of fiendly sailing


Come to round 2 on Sunday.

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The issue as to if there was a contact or not is really going to determine if Boat A should be disqualified or not.

Again - should boat A be disqualified.

 

 

If Green (Evil 11) on stbd had to alter course to avoid Yellow on port then Yellow has failed to keep clear and breaks R10 P/S. There does not have to be contact. So in a protest hearing, Yellow should lose.

The PC could find that there was sufficient room and that Green did not have to alter course, and dismiss the protest. This is a likely outcome if Green did not protest Yellow.

If Green chooses to tack to port to avoid Yellow, then Green is not obligated to protest (she 'may' protest).


John


John Ball

IOM CAN 307 (V8)

In my private capacity

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Dave I found the answer in your post -


But happily Boat A protested the evil boat 11


a) Boat 11 Infringed upon Boat A by not allowing sufficient Room for A to TACK


And my comment is that there is no obligation for a trailing boat to provide a leading boat for 'room to tack' except at an obstruction (R 19 and R 20).


Was there an obstruction?

Did A hail for 'room to tack'?


John


John Ball

IOM CAN 307 (V8)

In my private capacity

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No obstructions ahead. Boat A should have waited for Evill 11 to tack.

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